I also seem to recall that the spoken intro in the LP set was longer.

Steve Smolian


-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Donald Tait
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 2:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127 tracking problems

Hi Ben,
  There seems to be a bit of confusion. 

  As Dennis Rooney pointed out, the first pressings of Victor M-127, the 78-rpm issue of Stokowski's recording of Gurrelieder, were made not with standard shellac, but with the Victrolac compound (with the standard scroll labels). I own one. If your discs play at 78 rpm, that is what you have, too. All subsequent pressings of M-127 were made of standard shellac. The version of Gurrelieder issued on the 33-1/3 rpm Program Transcription discs in set LM-127 were also made of Victrolac, but as Rich Kaplan said, that is a separate (and very scarce) set.

  Don Tait

  
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 6295LARGE <[log in to unmask]>
To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2018 12:03 pm
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127 tracking problems

Hi Rich,
Thanks for the email, but It's not the Vitrolac.  It's M-127 with the
scrolled red label.
I guess it was  made after they invented vinyl, but it's terrible when I
try to play it.

Regards,
Ben




On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:52 PM Richard Kaplan <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> From what you describe, what you have is almost certainly the Victrolac
> "Program Transcription" as Gary describes. How to tell: the album number is
> LM-127 as opposed to simply M or DM; and, the discs have a silver label as
> opposed to the standard red label for 78s. These are not "78s" at all, but
> early long-play discs that were cut at 33.3. The set is quite rare.
>
> As for tracking, the grooves are narrower than those of regular 78s; my
> copy also mistracks with a standard 78 stylus. Mark Obert-Thorn recommends
> a 2.0 mil stylus.
>
> Rich Kaplan
>
> In a message dated 9/19/2018 2:34:11 PM Central Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>  Hi Ben,
>
> I should have read your first sentence more carefully. What you describe
> as vinyl is actually Victrolac, a "thermoplastic resin" that Victor
> developed for the long-playing Program Transcriptions. There was quite a
> bit of discussion a few weeks back about Victrolac on this list.
>
> Is the stylus picking up any dirt? Dennis Rooney described a problem with
> Victrolac records oozing sticky gook into the grooves. Perhaps he can
> respond and refresh our memories on this.
>
> Gary
>
> ____________________________
>
> Gary Galo
> Audio Engineer Emeritus
> The Crane School of Music
> SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
>
> "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> Arnold Schoenberg
>
> "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> Igor Markevitch
>
> "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> audible,
> on that system nothing will be audible."
> G. Galo
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:26 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> tracking problems
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I never heard of Victrolac.
>  I'm sure the record is clean, because I just cleaned it.
> I cleaned it with "PURE 2 - Professional record cleaner from by "Nitty
> Gritty"
>
> I has the scroll label and it feels like vinyl. Is it not vinyl?
>
> Regards,
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 3:17 PM Gary A. Galo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> > Is this a Victrolac pressing with scroll labels, or regular shellac? My
> > Victrolac copy has a lot of crud in the grooves, a problem with that
> > material that was mentioned a few weeks back on this list. If this is the
> > case, the records need a good cleaning.
> >
> > I also had, at one time, a post-war shellac pressing with RCA Victor
> > labels, and a banner-style cover on the album. I've used a 2.5 mil TE on
> > both sets without problems.
> >
> > Best,
> > Gary
> >
> > ____________________________
> >
> > Gary Galo
> > Audio Engineer Emeritus
> > The Crane School of Music
> > SUNY at Potsdam, NY 13676
> >
> > "Great art presupposes the alert mind of the educated listener."
> > Arnold Schoenberg
> >
> > "A true artist doesn't want to be admired, he wants to be believed."
> > Igor Markevitch
> >
> > "If you design an audio system based on the premise that nothing is
> > audible,
> > on that system nothing will be audible."
> > G. Galo
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 6295LARGE
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 3:07 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [ARSCLIST] Shoenberg: Gurrelieder Stokowski vinyl 78 M-127
> > tracking problems
> >
> > Hello everyone
> >
> > I never thought I'd have tracking problems with these beautiful vinyl
> 78s,
> > but i do.
> > I know they've been reissued on LP and CD, but, strange as it may seem, I
> > need to have the 78's for transferring purposes.
> > The styli are jumping. I've even tried with a .7 mil stylus just to see
> if
> > it would track better.
> > I tried playing the records at 45 and 33, but the styli keep jumping
> > forward. It looks as though the grooves are jerky while the records look
> > brand new.
> >
> > Has anyone ever come across this problem?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ben Roth
> > PLEASE respond to [log in to unmask]
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>