The subject of onomastics has always fascinated me, not only as an archivist
and a linguist, but as someone with a general curiosity in the ways of
humankind. Therefore, I have found this thread very interesting. I have
another question concerning names.
I know that Manuel de Falla should be listed under 'F' and that he should be
referred to as "Falla" without the 'de'. It is the same in French, where
Déodat de Sévérac is listed under ‘S’. But what about Italian names like
Giuseppe Di Stefano? In Italian publications I always see the particle
capitalized, which it is not in Spanish or French, and the singer is always
called “Di Stefano”, never “Stefano”. So, do I assume correctly that Italian
names should always include the ‘de’ particle, be filed under “D”, and it
should always be capitalized? If I assume incorrectly, please inform me.
Thanks.
-Larry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of George Brock-Nannestad
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 12:18 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Italian names?
>
> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>
>
> ----- thanks, Morris, right you are! Incidentally, a similar construction
is
> also used in Icelandic, where a woman is her father's firstnameDOTTIR, but
no
> last name, at least not before marriage. In Danish, before the naming act
of
> 1857, each son used his firstname plus patronymic, and in many families
there
> were basically only two names taking turns (Peder Hansen, Hans Pedersen,
> Peder Hansen ......)
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> George
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Morris Martin wrote:
>
>
> > I believe the patronymic is based on the father's FIRST name, and is
used as
> > the child's middle name.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of George Brock-Nannestad
> > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:28 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Italian names?
> >
> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> >
> > Dear Darren,
> >
> > you are venturing into a subject area taught in library school:
cataloguing.
> > National naming conventions are not at all easy; for instance it is not
> > uncommon to see names from Italy written in the reverse order lastname-
> > firstname, like in Hungary. It is not a language but a national
question.
> > This is compounded when you are supposed--at least in official
documents--to
> > provide some family link, like husband's last name or mother's last name
or
> > father's last name (patronymic). Double-barrelled names, like mine, are
> > interpreted quite differently across the globe.
> >
> > It is also very age-dependent, and even with sound recordings spanning
only
> > roughly 120 years there may be an influence. I am sure the IASA
cataloguing
> > rules might help get the priorities right, and then some library science
> > textbooks. Present-day interest in geneaology may also have provided
> > handbooks.
> >
> > Over the years I have had good use of the following book, which does
mention
> > some of the above on a nation by nation basis:
> >
> > Allen, C.G.: 'A Manual of European Languages for Librarians', Bowker,
London
> > 1975.
> >
> > To someone already familiar with some languages and with a basic grasp
of
> > grammar, this is a fascinating book that permits you to navigate (and
> > catalogue, incidentally) a lot of books in strange and stranger
languages. I
> > would like to quote the section of Scope from the introduction (p. 1):
> >
> > "It is doubtless a mark of prudence not to attempt either to order or to
> > catalogue books in languages with which one is not thoroughly familiar,
and
> > to refuse to answer any enquiries concerning them. A critical study, in
the
> > company of the appropriate experts, of international bibliographies or
the
> > catalogues of wide-ranging libraries would convince the doubtful that
any
> > other course is certain to lead to the perpetration of those linguistic
> > howlers whose existence is of no practical importance, but whose belated
> > discovery is a source of unreasonable mortification. But there must be
many
> > libraries where such prudence is out of the question: even without the
> > necessary expert knowledge one must accept and deal with the books for
the
> > sake of completeness, and risk the errors. It is with the hope of
minimising
> > these errors and making the adventuere somewhat less hazardous that this
> > manual is written."
> >
> > To your precise question: I would say that Cordio is the lastname,
because
> > Carlo would be so unusual as a lastname.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> > George
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > > Dear Darren,
> > >
> > > CORDIO is the last name. CARLO is the first name and MARIA is the
middle
> > > name (sometimes one says that we have several first names).
> > >
> > > It is not unusual for people in latin-language-group countries to have
> > > both two or even more middle names, just so you know.
> > > Maria (or Marie in French) is a very common middle name (also for
men!).
> > >
> > > In everyday interpellation (and if you're on informal terms with them,
of
> > > course), you would call people by their first name (in this case
Carlo),
> > > although the official name would be Carlo Maria CORDIO.
> > >
> > > In Scandinavia, however, it is more common to use both first name and
> > > middle name in everyday use, than only first name. Scandinavian often
> > have
> > > 2 last names, although officially one of those is considered a middle
> > name
> > > (unless hyphenated, then they are considered one last name).
> > > (which is a problem for me having "von Arb" as a last name, here in
> > > Scandinavia, von is now my second middle name, and I'm listed in the
> > > telephone catalogue as Arb, Jacqueline I Von (Isabelle being my
not-used
> > > middle name).
> > >
> > > In many Eastern European countries, the convention is to give your
last
> > > name first: JANICKI Krzysztof Pavlovich (Pavlovich being the middle
> > > name... ficticious name, by the way...)
> > >
> > > Confusing? These are just very general naming conventions, and by no
> > means
> > > a rule. I won't even get into special cases, exceptions and
nick-names.
> > >
> > > Jacqueline (Isabelle) von Arb... but do call me Jac =)
> > >
> > > - Director, Norwegian Institute of Recorded Sound (Norsk Lydinstitutt,
> > > www.recordedsound.no)
> > > - General Manager, MemNor Audio Archiving Services (www.memnor.no)
> > > - Vice President, IASA - International Association of Sound and
> > > Audiovisual Archives (www.iasa-web.org)
> > > +47 51 83 40 60 (direct work) +47 98 25 06 28 (mobile/cell)
> > > Norsk Lydinstitutt is a partner of the EU-project Memories (2006-09
> > > www.memories-project.eu)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > D P Ingram <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent by: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > > 22.01.2010 11:12
> > > Please respond to
> > > Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
> > >
> > >
> > > To
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > cc
> > >
> > > Subject
> > > [ARSCLIST] Italian names?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > Could an Italian speaker (or those with knowledge of Italian
practices)
> > > advise to assist in cataloguing...
> > >
> > > We've got a composer called CARLO MARIA CORDIO (all presented in caps)
> > and
> > > Gooogling has not helped reveal what is the family name (so we can
> > > reference that in CAPS), leaving the forenames in Title Case. I.e.
should
> > > it be CORDIO, Carlo Maria or MARIA CORDIO, Carlo (a double barrelled
name
> > > without the hyphen).
> > >
> > > If there's a good online reference to international naming to help
> > further
> > > queries, I'd love to know :) Thanks, Darren
> > >
> > >
> > > On 22 jan 2010, at 07.53, Lars Gaustad wrote:
> > >
> > > | D P Ingram | Ab Ingram Oy |
> > > | darren at ingram.fi | www.ingram.fi |
> > > |
> > > | MUSIC LIBRARY FINLAND - www.musiclibrary.fi
> > > |
> > > | +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) | +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) | +44 203 318 0599
(UK)
> > |
> > > | extn 8001
> > > |
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