LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  January 2010

ARSCLIST January 2010

Subject:

Re: Italian names?

From:

Larry Friedman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 22 Jan 2010 14:27:31 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (445 lines)

The subject of onomastics has always fascinated me, not only as an archivist
and a linguist, but as someone with a general curiosity in the ways of
humankind. Therefore, I have found this thread very interesting. I have
another question concerning names.

 

I know that Manuel de Falla should be listed under 'F' and that he should be
referred to as "Falla" without the 'de'. It is the same in French, where
Déodat de Sévérac is listed under ‘S’. But what about Italian names like
Giuseppe Di Stefano? In Italian publications I always see the particle
capitalized, which it is not in Spanish or French, and the singer is always
called “Di Stefano”, never “Stefano”. So, do I assume correctly that Italian
names should always include the ‘de’ particle, be filed under “D”, and it
should always be capitalized? If I assume incorrectly, please inform me.

 

Thanks.

 

-Larry

 

 

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]

> On Behalf Of George Brock-Nannestad

> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 12:18 PM

> To: [log in to unmask]

> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Italian names?

> 

> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad

> 

> 

> ----- thanks, Morris, right you are! Incidentally, a similar construction
is

> also used in Icelandic, where a woman is her father's firstnameDOTTIR, but
no

> last name, at least not before marriage. In Danish, before the naming act
of

> 1857, each son used his firstname plus patronymic, and in many families
there

> were basically only two names taking turns (Peder Hansen, Hans Pedersen,

> Peder Hansen ......)

> 

> Kind regards,

> 

> 

> George

> 

> ------------------------------------

> 

> Morris Martin wrote:

> 

> 

> > I believe the patronymic is based on the father's FIRST name, and is
used as

> > the child's middle name.

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List

> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of George Brock-Nannestad

> > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 10:28 AM

> > To: [log in to unmask]

> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Italian names?

> >

> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad

> >

> > Dear Darren,

> >

> > you are venturing into a subject area taught in library school:
cataloguing.

> > National naming conventions are not at all easy; for instance it is not

> > uncommon to see names from Italy written in the reverse order lastname-

> > firstname, like in Hungary. It is not a language but a national
question.

> > This is compounded when you are supposed--at least in official
documents--to

> > provide some family link, like husband's last name or mother's last name
or

> > father's last name (patronymic). Double-barrelled names, like mine, are

> > interpreted quite differently across the globe.

> >

> > It is also very age-dependent, and even with sound recordings spanning
only

> > roughly 120 years there may be an influence. I am sure the IASA
cataloguing

> > rules might help get the priorities right, and then some library science

> > textbooks. Present-day interest in geneaology may also have provided

> > handbooks.

> >

> > Over the years I have had good use of the following book, which does
mention

> > some of the above on a nation by nation basis:

> >

> > Allen, C.G.: 'A Manual of European Languages for Librarians', Bowker,
London

> > 1975.

> >

> > To someone already familiar with some languages and with a basic grasp
of

> > grammar, this is a fascinating book that permits you to navigate (and

> > catalogue, incidentally) a lot of books in strange and stranger
languages. I

> > would like to quote the section of Scope from the introduction (p. 1):

> >

> > "It is doubtless a mark of prudence not to attempt either to order or to

> > catalogue books in languages with which one is not thoroughly familiar,
and

> > to refuse to answer any enquiries concerning them. A critical study, in
the

> > company of the appropriate experts, of international bibliographies or
the

> > catalogues of wide-ranging libraries would convince the doubtful that
any

> > other course is certain to lead to the perpetration of those linguistic

> > howlers whose existence is of no practical importance, but whose belated

> > discovery is a source of unreasonable mortification. But there must be
many

> > libraries where such prudence is out of the question: even without the

> > necessary expert knowledge one must accept and deal with the books for
the

> > sake of completeness, and risk the errors. It is with the hope of
minimising

> > these errors and making the adventuere somewhat less hazardous that this

> > manual is written."

> >

> > To your precise question: I would say that Cordio is the lastname,
because

> > Carlo would be so unusual as a lastname.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> >

> >

> > George

> >

> > -------------------------------------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > > Dear Darren,

> > >

> > > CORDIO is the last name. CARLO is the first name and MARIA is the
middle

> > > name (sometimes one says that we have several first names).

> > >

> > > It is not unusual for people in latin-language-group countries to have

> > > both two or even more middle names, just so you know.

> > > Maria (or Marie in French) is a very common middle name (also for
men!).

> > >

> > > In everyday interpellation (and if you're on informal terms with them,
of

> > > course), you would call people by their first name (in this case
Carlo),

> > > although the official name would be Carlo Maria CORDIO.

> > >

> > > In Scandinavia, however, it is more common to use both first name and

> > > middle name in everyday use, than only first name. Scandinavian often

> > have

> > > 2 last names, although officially one of those is considered a middle

> > name

> > > (unless hyphenated, then they are considered one last name).

> > > (which is a problem for me having "von Arb" as a last name, here in

> > > Scandinavia, von is now my second middle name, and I'm listed in the

> > > telephone catalogue as Arb, Jacqueline I Von (Isabelle being my
not-used

> > > middle name).

> > >

> > > In many Eastern European countries, the convention is to give your
last

> > > name first: JANICKI Krzysztof  Pavlovich  (Pavlovich being the middle

> > > name... ficticious name, by the way...)

> > >

> > > Confusing? These are just very general naming conventions, and by no

> > means

> > > a rule. I won't even get into special cases, exceptions and
nick-names.

> > >

> > > Jacqueline (Isabelle) von Arb... but do call me Jac  =)

> > >

> > > - Director, Norwegian Institute of Recorded Sound (Norsk Lydinstitutt,

> > > www.recordedsound.no)

> > > - General Manager, MemNor Audio Archiving Services (www.memnor.no)

> > > - Vice President, IASA - International Association of Sound and

> > > Audiovisual Archives (www.iasa-web.org)

> > > +47 51 83 40 60 (direct work)    +47 98 25 06 28 (mobile/cell)

> > > Norsk Lydinstitutt is a partner of the EU-project Memories (2006-09

> > > www.memories-project.eu)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > D P Ingram <[log in to unmask]>

> > > Sent by: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List

> > <[log in to unmask]>

> > > 22.01.2010 11:12

> > > Please respond to

> > > Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

> > >

> > >

> > > To

> > > [log in to unmask]

> > > cc

> > >

> > > Subject

> > > [ARSCLIST] Italian names?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi.

> > >

> > > Could an Italian speaker (or those with knowledge of Italian
practices)

> > > advise to assist in cataloguing...

> > >

> > > We've got a composer called CARLO MARIA CORDIO (all presented in caps)

> > and

> > > Gooogling has not helped reveal what is the family name (so we can

> > > reference that in CAPS), leaving the forenames in Title Case. I.e.
should

> > > it be CORDIO, Carlo Maria or MARIA CORDIO, Carlo (a double barrelled
name

> > > without the hyphen).

> > >

> > > If there's a good online reference to international naming to help

> > further

> > > queries, I'd love to know :) Thanks, Darren

> > >

> > >

> > > On 22 jan 2010, at 07.53, Lars Gaustad wrote:

> > >

> > > | D P Ingram | Ab Ingram Oy |

> > > | darren at ingram.fi |  www.ingram.fi |

> > > |

> > > | MUSIC LIBRARY FINLAND - www.musiclibrary.fi

> > > |

> > > | +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) | +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) | +44 203 318 0599
(UK)

> > |

> > > | extn 8001

> > > |

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager