LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for BIBFRAME Archives


BIBFRAME Archives

BIBFRAME Archives


BIBFRAME@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

BIBFRAME Home

BIBFRAME Home

BIBFRAME  November 2011

BIBFRAME November 2011

Subject:

Re: What the data tells us

From:

"Riley, Charles" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 6 Nov 2011 20:48:41 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (188 lines)

I've only been cataloging for the last decade, but in that time I can't remember how often I've been introduced to the idea of some new 'core' that I should be getting trained into and used to using, or at least familiar with.  To wit:

Core-level (E/L 4)
PCC Core
Dublin Core
RDA Core
Bibliographic Standard Reference

Agreed, that a modular approach is conceptually appropriate and workable--it is a worthy undertaking.  But are all the existing attempts at a core standard so woefully inadequate that they can't be used?  If so, what were the common failings in the approach to develop them?

Charles Riley


________________________________________
From: Bibliographic Framework Transition Initiative Forum [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Karen Coyle [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 3:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BIBFRAME] What the data tells us

Roy, I wish you'd said all of this to begin with! Yes, we need to
create a simple core structure that can be extended. This is what we
do not have with MARC, and we definitely do NOT have with RDA.
Unfortunately, RDA is more like MARC than what you describe below. We
do have an opportunity to create a something more workable in this
transition, but if we do not then we will be stuck with an unworkably
complex data carrier for a very long time. As some said when RDA was
still in progress, this may be our last chance to get it right because
we are falling further and further behind as information providers.

Coming up with a core is tricky, to say the least. RDA's core includes
elements that are core for all of the formats that it supports -- so
there are core music elements, core maps elements, etc., all as part
of a single core. I'm not sure that helps us. FRBR's entities are
probably a better core -- although I find there to be some
idiosyncrasies in FRBR (the four Group 3 entities, to start) that need
to be ironed out. I do think that it is essential that we start from
zero and re-think core for the purposes of a new framework.

kc

Quoting Roy Tennant <[log in to unmask]>:

> Karen,
> I think you missed my point. The point wasn't to enrage music catalogers by
> leaving a field or subfield behind that they simply must have -- it was
> rather to determine a core of bibliographic description (which I submit the
> data DOES tell us), then allow communities of interest to specify ways in
> which that core can be decorated with what they require without ending up
> where we did with MARC -- with an arguably bloated record (and I'm including
> subfields here) that tries to be prepared for every eventuality. That's why
> I suggested modularity as being an excellent strategy for accomplishing one
> of my pet goals (to respond to Hal Cain's request):
>
> · Simple aims should be simple to accomplish.
>
> · Complexity should be avoided unless it is absolutely required to achieve
> the goal.
>
> · If complexity is required, it should be sequestered. That is, complexity
> should not spill over to affect those who donąt need it to achieve their
> goals.
>
> When a MARC subfield is used 17 times out of 240 million records we may want
> to consider just how important it is to create it, document it, and write
> software to process it.
> Roy
>
> On 11/5/11 11/5/11 € 1:24 PM, "Karen Coyle" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Quoting Roy Tennant <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>>> I believe you are missing the point. The evidence is clear -- the vast
>>> majority of the some 3,000 data elements in MARC go unused except for a
>>> small percentage of records in terms of the whole. What isn't there cannot
>>> be indexed or presented in a catalog, no matter how hard you try. In other
>>> words, which fields were coded is the only relevant information. It is the
>>> ONLY relevant information when you are discussing how to move forward.
>>
>> I disagree. (As does the OCLC report, BTW) To some extent the stats on
>> MARC records reflect the many special interests that MARC tries to
>> address. I have spent more time on the Moen statistics [1] than the
>> OCLC ones, although since they were done on the same body of data I
>> don't see how they could be very different.
>>
>> In the case of what Moen turned up, the most highly used fields were
>> ones that systems require (001, 005, 008, 245, 260, 300) -- it's a bit
>> hard to attribute that to cataloger choice. But for the remainder of
>> the fields there is no way to know if the field is present in all of
>> the records that it *should* be, or not.
>>
>> At least some of the low use fields are ones that serve a small-ish
>> specialized community. Only 1.3% of the OCLC records have a
>> Cartographic Mathematical Data (255), but according to the OCLC report
>> that represents a large portion of the Maps records (p. 23 of OCLC
>> report). It's harder to make this kind of analysis for fields that can
>> be used across resource types. For example, 35-47% of the records
>> (OCLC v. LC-only, respectively, from Moen's stats) have a Geographic
>> Area code (043). Undoubtedly some records should not have that field,
>> so is this field a reliable indicator that the resource has geographic
>> relevance? We have no way of knowing. In addition, as MARC fields are
>> constantly being added, some fields suffer from not having been
>> available in the past. (Moen does a comparison of fields used over
>> time [2], and the OCLC report also looks at this; see below.)
>>
>> Neither the Moen stats nor the OCLC report really tell us what we need
>> to know. It's not their fault, however, because we have no way to know
>> what the cataloger intended to represent, nor if the MARC record is
>> complete in relation to the resource. My experience with some
>> specialized libraries (mainly music and maps) was that these
>> communities are diligent in their coding of very complex data. These,
>> however, represent only small numbers in a general catalog.
>>
>> The OCLC report reaches this conclusion:
>>
>> "That leaves 86 tags that are little used, or not used at all, as
>> listed in the ?MARC 21 fields little or not used? table (Table 2.14,
>> p. 32). Of these infrequently occurring fields, 16 are fields that
>> were introduced between 2001 and 2008. Three of these fields
>> (highlighted in orange) have no occurrences in WorldCat since OCLC has
>> no plans to implement them."
>>
>> This means that there are really 67 fields that seem to be underused.
>> That is out of 185 tags (not 3000, which would be more like the number
>> of subfields). That's about 1/3. Having sat in on many MARBI meetings,
>> however, I am sure that there are communities that would be very upset
>> if some of these fields were removed (e.g. musical incipits, GPO item
>> number). Admittedly, some fields were introduced that then turned out
>> not to be useful. If those can be identified, so much the better.
>>
>> Basically, there is no way to know a priori what fields *should* be in
>> a MARC record other than the few that are required. Deciding which
>> fields can be left behind is going to take more than a statistical
>> analysis. I agree that we should not carry forward all MARC data just
>> "because it is there." The analysis, though, is going to be fairly
>> difficult. Even more difficult will be the analysis of the fixed
>> fields. I could go on about those at length, but that analysis will be
>> complicated by the fact that the fixed fields are frequently a
>> duplicate of data already in the record, and we never should have
>> expected catalogers to do the same input twice for the same
>> information -- we should have had a way to accomplish indexing and
>> display with a single input.
>>
>> kc
>> [1] http://www.mcdu.unt.edu/?p=41
>> [2] http://www.mcdu.unt.edu/?p=47
>>
>>>
>>> The one thing you said that I agree with wholeheartedly, is that we should
>>> know what data is useful to users. Yes. That.
>>> Roy
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/4/11 11/4/11 € 10:41 PM, "J. McRee Elrod" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Roy Tennant <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Implications of MARC Tag Usage on Library Metadata Practices"
>>>>> http://www.oclc.org/research/publications/library/2010/2010-06.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This study told us what fields were in records, not whether those
>>>> fields were utilized in OPACs.  MARC has a wealth if information never
>>>> put to practical use.   Which fields were coded is fairly useless
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> A study of what fields OPACs actually use might be helpful, but that
>>>> still does not tell us what fields might be helpful to patrons if they
>>>> were utilized,'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    __       __   J. McRee (Mac) Elrod ([log in to unmask])
>>>>   {__  |   /     Special Libraries Cataloguing   HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
>>>>   ___} |__ \__________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>



--
Karen Coyle
[log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
July 2011
June 2011

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager