Limburgish is one case: a recently (by The Netherlands) officially recognized minority language in the Durch-speaking region.
German dialects is another story - whatever their linguistic erlationship may be. Therefore, I do not share Sten's fears in this specific case. I do agree with a formal vote - including an alpha-2 symbol (if sufficient justification is provided by the respective authorities).
Von: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]Im Auftrag
von Hedberg Sten
Gesendet: Montag, 29. April 2002 16:07
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: ISO 639 submission - Limburgish
After having seen the forwarded mails from Peter and Mathieu I would welcome
a formal ballot for a 639-2 code, and I would second it although I am aware
that we might open for a flood of applications from minorities within and
around Germany and other countries.
But I repeat what I have said before, maybe though in other words : We have
variants, dialects, some of them with recognized names (Limburgish), others
just called on the pattern <a language><a region> (American English). The
latter lend themselves to being identified under RFC1366, that is now also,
after a recent format change, a possible scheme for the library-based Marc21
network, tag 041. But the former should be allotted individual codes based
on their names if/when they apply for it and the required documentation is
proved to exist; the alternative would be a very tricky linguistic
classification where Linguasphere could help us, but the average users of
ISO639-2 would have little understanding for that coding.
From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of Havard Hjulstad
Sent: den 24 april 2002 13:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ISO 639 submission - Limburgish
Dear JAC members and observers,
The submission below has been received. I have sent a response to the
submitter requesting slightly better documentation for the documents. I have
also asked about status in school, official "academy" or committee, and
status and use in Germany.
I think that we can assume that the 50 volume requirement will be met.
However, I shall circulate any extra information that I receive.
Limburgish is a "Low Saxon - Low Franconian" language (to use Ethnologue
classification). The language is not found as an individual language in
Ethnologue. It is clearly a complicated issue to draw linguistic boundaries
in this very complex landscape, taking both linguistic and political issues
Linguasphere has the following items:
52-ACB-al = "Westplatt" (52 = "Germanic", 52-ACB = "Deutsch+Nederlands").
52-ACB-ala = "Limburgesch-W"
52-ACB-alb = "Limburgesch-C"
52-ACB-alc = "Limburgesch-S"
52-ACB-ald = "Limburgesch-E"
52-ACB-ale = "Bergisch" (being east of the ones above, "centre" around
The proposed alpha-2 identifier "lb" is in use (Luxemburgish). However, my
opinion is that we don't need to worry about alpha-2 identifier. This is a
candidate for alpha-3, but not for alpha-2 in my opinion.
Havard Hjulstad mailto:[log in to unmask]
NO-1430 As, Norway
tel: +47-64944233 & +47-64963684
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 05:59:50 -0400
From: WWW generic account <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: New ISO 639-2 code
This data was submitted on: Tuesday, April 9, 2002 at 05:59:50
lang_in_eng = Limburgish / Limburger / Limburgian
lang_in_fre = Limbourgeois
ref_where_found_1 = European Bureau of Lesser Used Languages / European
Charter for Regional or Minority Languages /
lang_in_vern = Limburgs
evidence = - Library of the University of Nijmegen, the Netherlands (100+)
(contact: [log in to unmask])
- Library of the University of Leuven, Belgium (100+)
- Publisher "Uitgeverij TIC", Maastricht (amount unkown
- City Library of Maastricht, the Netherlands (amount unknown)
- Meertens Institute (amount unknown) (contact: www.meertens.knaw.nl)
addinfo = number of speakers: rough estimate 1,000,000
official status: recognized as regional language in the Netherlands
where spoken: in the 2 provinces of Limburg (the Netherlands and Belgium)
request_addition = ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2
2_code_suggestion = LB
3_code_suggestion = LIM
submit_name = Mathieu van Woerkom
submit_email = [log in to unmask]
submit_status = academic student