LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ISOJAC Archives


ISOJAC Archives

ISOJAC Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ISOJAC Home

ISOJAC Home

ISOJAC  September 2002

ISOJAC September 2002

Subject:

Re: use of 2-letter codes (was Re: Yi - 2 letter code)

From:

Keld Jørn Simonsen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:41:04 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 11:40:15PM -0500, Peter Constable wrote:
> On 06/13/2002 03:42:31 AM Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote:
>
> This is an old thread I have only now been able to come back to.
>
>
> >> I am
> >> wondering, though, what the long-term expectations are with regard to
> >> two-letter identifiers. [snip]   E.g. they are used in the
> >> internationalisation infrastructure of Java and at least some Unix
> >> implementations for "locale" identification (identification of anything
> >> culture-related, which would include multilingual text), but two-letter
> >> codes are not adequate for such uses since the number of languages
> users
> >> will eventually want supported by those infrastructures goes well
> beyond
> >> 676.
> >
> >for unix/posix/c/c++ yes we use the 2-letter code, and that has till now
> >proven to be quite productive. It is an established and well known
> >practice, and also standardized in ISO/IEC 15897 on locale names.
> >We have plans to enhance this use to also use 3-letter 639-2 codes
> >when needed.
> >
> >For current C/C++ software it is in practise needed to have support
> >for a language that there be a 2-letter code.
>
> I'm curious to know when that might occur, and what it would take for a
> need to be perceived.

I can't tell about that. One thing is what we stipulate in standards,
another whein it is supported. It may be supported already now, I have
not checked the GNU glibc code on this.

> For instance, there was a recent request for a
> 2-letter code for Hawaiian, and if I understood the background correctly,
> the main reason behind this request was that someone wanted a unix
> implementation to be created, and was told that a 2-letter identifier was
> needed. There's circular argumentation going on there, it seems to me:
> unix implementations will be enhanced to used 3-letter identifiers if
> there is a need; but faced with an existing 3-letter identifier for which
> there is no 2-letter counterpart, one is told that current implementations
> only work with 2-letter identifiers and so a 2-letter identifier must be
> requested. Nowhere in that equation is there consideration that the
> language in question may not be a candidate for a 2-letter identifier
> according to the criteria of ISO 639-1 (remember that standard?).

I see what you mean. But I think it is recognised in the community
that 3-letter language codes are a need.

> I realise that immediate needs can only be dealt with in terms of
> currently-existing implementations, but it seems to me that the signs of
> the times are clear: the number of language communities wishing to have
> software implementations for their languages and writing systems is
> growing quicker than ever before, and thus the time for that promised
> enhancement is at hand. But is it forthcoming?

At least we are doing it in IS 15897. But standards take time. I think
that standard will materialise maybe 2 years from now.
>
>
>
> >I think we should follow the rules laid down in the standard and
> >our procedures, when a request is presented to us. It seems like the
> >locales are a major usage area of our standard, I believe that the
> Walloon
> >request also came out of a need for a locale name.
>
> The criteria for ISO 639-1 say nothing whatsoever about locales, and that
> standard was not developed primarily to service the needs of software
> localisation and language-enablement. The needs of software localisation
> and enablement are, in fact, rather more extensive that the 2-letter code
> can accommodate, and potentially involve very many languages that do
> satisfy the criteria for ISO 639-1. The request for Walloon may have been
> related to the need for a locale name, though I have reason to question it
> (there had been requests from the community for Walloon to be recognised
> as a distinct language in the Ethnologue as well as in ISO 639, and that
> clearly had nothing to do with locale identification). But what of
> Neapolitan, Asturian, the various Saami languages and other recent
> additions to ISO 639-2? Are they any less valid candidates for
> identification of resources in unix/posix/c/c++/java than Walloon? By no
> means.

Agree


keld

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

April 2021
January 2021
November 2020
June 2020
May 2019
February 2019
September 2018
April 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
May 2016
April 2016
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
May 2013
April 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager