Moksha and Erzya are definitely different languages. We should add
one three letter code for each. We should not lump these two together.

See http://www.evertype.com/alphabets/moksha.pdf for the indigenous
name "mokshen' kjal'" -- possibly "mokshen' kjal's'".See
http://www.evertype.com/alphabets/erzya.pdf for the indigenous name
"erzjan' kel'" -- possibly "erzjan' keles'".

I can't say that I particularly care for the Ethnologue identifiers
for these, but it's arbitrary so I don't mind really.

Michael Everson

At 11:21 +0100 2002-10-30, Havard Hjulstad wrote:
>The ISO 639 RA-JAC has received the following proposal for a new entry in
>the alpha-3 table:
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:11:42 -0400
>From: WWW generic account <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: New ISO 639-2 code
>
>This data was submitted on: Friday, October 11, 2002 at 14:11:42
>
>lang_in_eng = Mordvin language
>lang_in_fre =
>ref_where_found_1 =
>lang_in_vern =
>ref_where_found_2 =
>trans_lit =
>evidence = Columbia University Libraries (128)
>addinfo =
>request_addition = ISO 639-2 only
>2_code_suggestion =
>3_code_suggestion = MDV
>submit_name = Susan Summer
>submit_email = [log in to unmask]
>submit_status = Catalog librarian, Columbia University Libraries
>
>---------- End forwarded message ----------
>
>CURRENT SITUATION:
>
>ISO 639 encoding: fiu = Finno-Ugric (other)
>
>Linguasphere: 41-AAD = Erzyan+Mokshen, with Mordvin as an "alternate
>reference name". The encoding 41-AAD includes the individual languages
>Erzyan (41-AAD-aa) and Mokshen (41-AAD-ab).
>
>Ethnologue: Two "Mordvinic" languages are listed: MDF = Moksha  &  MYV =
>Erzya. Ethologue comments that there is considerable difference between the
>two languages. Moksha is spoken by some 430.000 people, Erzya by some
>440.000 people, primarily in Russia.
>
>
>ISSUES:
>
>There may be three options: (1) Encode "Mordvin languages" as a group; (2)
>encode each of the two members of the group separately; (3) encode BOTH the
>group and the two members of the group. I would probably rule out the third
>option for the current 639-2 (but later development might make it an issue
>again). If we wish to go for the second option, we will need further
>evidence for the "50 document rule" (although it would be very unlikely that
>half a million people haven't produced 50 documents).
>
>The proposed identifier (mdv) is available. I should think that thois would
>be a suitable identifier if we go for the first option.
>
>
>Best regards,
>Havard Hjulstad
>(acting chairman of ISO 639 RA-JAC)
>-------------------------
>Havard Hjulstad    mailto:[log in to unmask]
>Chairman ISO/TC37 (Terminology and other language resources)
>Chairman ISO/TC207/TCG (Environmental management - Terminology coordination
>group)
>   Solfallsveien 31
>   NO-1430  As, Norway
>   tel: +47 64963684  &  +47 64944233
>   mob: +47 90145563
>   http://www.hjulstad.com/havard/
>-------------------------


--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  * http://www.evertype.com