I saw a special on the "Making of ST" and the shower scene was
delibertly done to convey the fact that these soldiers were all buddies. The
actors said that this was the hardest scene in the movie to film, because
they had the be relaxed in their nudity and all the other actor's nudity and
look relaxed as well.
I am a Heinlein fan and I enjoyed the movie. I think that the spirit
of the book was conveyed in the movie to a great extent, but I would have
loved to have the soldiers wear their suits, instead of looking so much like
today's soldiers in the field.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bellamy, Maria-English Teacher
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:24 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Dune/Herbert (was Dead White Men)
I only saw it as an easy way to put some bare skin into the movie, that
scene seemed disconnected from the rest of the movie to me. I only saw it
when it hit theatres, but my memory says even the lighting was drastically
different in that scene only.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed McDonald [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:14 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SF-LIT] Dune/Herbert (was Dead White Men)
I thought the movie was pure garbage except for one
scene: I noticed that when the platoon was taking a
shower the males and females showered together and
there was no sexual undertones at all. It was just
comrades showering off a day's worth of grime. Did
anyone else see it that way?
ed
--- "Bellamy, Maria-English Teacher"
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Re the movie: the "it was a satire" line comes off
> as an afterthought, a
> hastily-adopted excuse for a movie that did *not* go
> over well with ST fans!
> Does anybody else recall Jon Lovitz's character of
> Tommy Flanagan on
> Saturday Night Live?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helge Moulding [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:49 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [SF-LIT] Dune/Herbert (was Dead White
> Men)
>
>
> > This sexists criticsim of Herbert sounds similar
> to the fascist criticism
> > I have seen leveled at Heinlein because of
> Starship Troopers. He created
> > a universe with a militaristic society with its
> own dogma, Herbert created
> > his universe with its own particulars. Does that
> then make the writer a
> > fascist or sexist?
>
> Except that in "Grumbles from the Grave" Heinlein
> writes in one of his
> letters about ST: "I stand behind my heresies." He
> didn't want to make
> changes to ST that would alter the message he wanted
> to convey.
>
> Heinlein's didactic style betrays him, I'd say. It's
> seems clear to me that
> he really did believe that his militaristic society
> would deal with certain
> problems better than would the dreaded welfare
> state, against which he was
> railing much of the time.
>
> Herbert, on the other hand, doesn't spend pages
> explaining why women can't
> do as well as men. That's just the attitude some
> people in the story happen
> to have.
>
> You know, just because I think RAH was a fascist in
> some (small? I never
> actually met the man) way doesn't mean I didn't
> enjoy reading most of his
> stories. I get that from some of RAH's more ardent
> defenders: if I think
> he was a fascist, then I must think he was no good
> as a writer. Well, the
> one hasn't anything to do with the other. I'd never
> vote for RAH to be,
> like, president, but I read his books, sure. They
> were fun, entertaining,
> and made me think. (And I think that most of us have
> fascist tendencies
> when faced with our frustrations.)
>
> Incidentally, on the subject of Starship Troopers
> the movie: who here thinks
> that the movie was *meant* to be a satire of
> Heinlein (the director seems to
> be happy to convey that that was his intention), and
> who here thinks that
> the director was just ham-handed, and inadvertantly
> produced a satire while
> trying to produce something entirely different? I'm
> coming down on the ham-
> handed side, myself, but maybe that's because the
> satire was too subtle for
> me. Does anyone know what, if anything, Ginny
> Heinlein said about it? Did we
> talk about this before?
> --
> Helge Moulding
> mailto:[log in to unmask] Just
> another guy
> http://hmoulding.cjb.net/ with a
> weird name
>
>
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