First of all, if the Udmurts do not prefer the designation Votyak, it is their
choice and we have to respect their preference.
As to the "old French term from 1952", I'd like to make a small precision. I
agree on the age of the source and I don't feel quite at ease to quote it
precisely because of this fact, however I don't like to argue about its value
either. But this is not the point.
Yet I'm afraid the term "votyak" (with script variants "vot'ak","votiak" etc...)
is still in use by the liguists. I proceeded to other researches and found it
refered to in studies on turkic languages as eg: "The turkic languages and
peoples: an introduction to turkic studies / Karl H. Menges.- Wiesbaden :
Harrassowitz, 1995" published by Societas uralo-altaica, as well as in other
publications, notably in french, german, romanian publications. The language is
equally refered to as "votiak" in the"Répertoire des vedettes matière" of
Bibliothèque Nationale de France and in the "Répertoire des vedettes matière" of
Bibliothèque de l'Université Laval in Canada. Naturally other "see reference
tracings" for udmurt, oudmourte, wotjak are also recorded in these two French
subject heading lists.
As far as I could understand, I suppose that votiak is still used in linguistic
studies (though perhaps not so widely) as a desigantion for the language than as
a desigantion for the people speaking this language.
Nevertheles if this designation is not prefered by the udmurts, their preference
counts for more than any other linguistic argument. So, finally I agree to
retain "oudmourte" as French name.
Michael Everson <[log in to unmask]> le 29/01/2003 17:41:25
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cc : (ccc : Anila ANGJELI/750/DIA/BnF)
Objet : Re: Preliminary results: ISO 639 JAC ballot 1-2003 - Udmurt - NEW
It is my understanding that the Udmurts do not prefer the designation
Votyak, in the same way that the Sami do not prefer the designation
Lapp. The republic they live in is officially called Udmurtia, so I
think we should not retain the older French term from 1952. That's my
At 13:21 +0100 2003-01-29, H=E5vard Hjulstad wrote:
>The first ballot on this item has been completed. The original ballot form
>is included below.
>The ballot passed unanimously on all points except the French name.
>The inclusion of the identifier "udm" has been approved; we just need a new
>round to determine the names.
>The following comment was submitted relating to the French name:
>" I suggest the French name "votiak" It is the name which appears on the
>most well known French source about languages : "Les langues du Monde"
>published by Soci=E9t=E9 linguistique de Paris in 1952. In the book, "votia=
>appears as the French form for the language for which the indigenous name i=
>"ud-murt". The French name for the people speaking these langue is "Votiaks=
>, these people live between Viatka and Kama. "
>It should be noted that the Ethnologue also lists "Votiak" and "Votyak" as
>alternate names (in English). The French name "oudmourte" is indeed found. =
>quick search with Google for French documents finds a few more documents
>containing "oudmourte" than "votiak".
>My suggestion would be to include English "Udmurt; Votiak" and French
>"oudmourte; votiak". Comments?
>* * * * * *
>ISO 639 Ballot -- New item: Udmurt
>Please vote by Friday 2003-01-24.
>Please see additional information below the ballot form.
>Submitted by (your name, please):
>(A) -- Inclusion:
>___ I am in favour of including the individual language "Udmurt" in 639-2
>___ I am opposed to including the individual language "Udmurt" in 639-2
>(B) -- Identifier:
>(Please vote even if you are opposed to the inclusion of the item)
>___ I accept the alpha-3 identifier "udm" for Mordvin (if to be included)
>___ I do not accept the identifier "udm" -- Comment:
>(C) -- Language names:
>___ I accept the English name "Udmurt" (if to be included)
>___ I do not accept the English name "Udmurt" -- Comment:
>___ I accept the French name "oudmourte" (if to be included)
>___ I do not accept the French name "oudmourte" -- Comment:
>___ I accept the indigenous name "udmurt kyl" (if to be included)
>___ I do not accept the indigenous name "udmurt kyl" -- Comment:
>* * * * * * *
>Background and additional information:
>This is based on a proposal submitted on 2002-10-11 and circulated to the
>JAC for comments on 2002-10-30. Feedback has been received from Michael
>The source of the French name is http://www.eurominority.org/.
>The source of the indigenous name is http://www.evertype.com/alphabets/
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com