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ISOJAC  October 2003

ISOJAC October 2003

Subject:

Réf. : Re: New ISO 639 alpha-3 identifier: Klingon - DISCUSSION until2003-11-21

From:

Anila Angjeli <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:37:23 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (143 lines)

Milicent K Wewerka <[log in to unmask]> le 20/10/2003 13:44:22

Veuillez répondre ā ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee <[log in to unmask]>

Pour : [log in to unmask]
cc : (ccc : Anila ANGJELI/750/DIA/BnF)
Objet : Re: New ISO 639 alpha-3 identifier: Klingon - DISCUSSION
      until2003-11-21

About the standard's criterion of 50 documents
It seems that the language is sufficently represented in the Web (at least)
besides other publications. Doesn't this suffise? Doesn't it mean that the
language code is useful ? And what is the sense of the usefulness ?
http://www.google.fr/intl/xx-klingon/
Have a fun and look at google's interface in klingon !
Anila

In reply to Håvard's request for comment:
        My problem is with our "50 documents" criterion. This has bothered me
about several recent requests. One would expect an institution or organization
devoted to a particular language to have the required 50 documents. But was
that really the intention of the requirement? I think the intention was that
the language should be sufficiently represented in institutional collections (or
elsewhere, such as the Web) so that a separate language code would be useful.
If only one or two organizations collect material in a particular language, is
it still useful to approved a separate code?
        Perhaps we should require evidence of 50 documents in an institution
other than that of the requester?

Milicent Wewerka
Library of Congress


>>> Håvard Hjulstad <[log in to unmask]> 10/19/03 03:29AM >>>
We have received a request to add an ISO 639 alpha-3 identifier for Klingon.
The original request and some clarification done at the LoC are found below.

Please see http://www.kli.org/ for inside information. We are talking about
an "invented language" (although I suppose we will classify it as an
"artificial language").

A sufficient number of documents seem to exist. But I still think that we
have a case where we need to discuss other criteria. If 50 people get
together and invent a language, and each write one document in the language;
do we register it? This language has not "native speakers" (50 native
speakers and 50 documents, and I wouldn't hesitate at all). It has also not
been developed as an artificial language for the purpose of international
communication. The language was developed for a film. It may be a "good"
invented language. Is that a criterion?

My job is to ask questions at this point. DISCUSSION PLEASE!

Håvard

-------------------------
Håvard Hjulstad mailto:[log in to unmask]
  http://www.hjulstad.com/havard/
-------------------------
all outgoing mail is scanned using Norton AntiVirus

-----Original Message-----
From: Rebecca S. Guenther [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 7. oktober 2003 21:59
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New ISO 639-2 code (fwd)


We received this request for a new language code for Klingon. See also the
revision of number of documents at the Library of Congress. However, if his
other calculations are correct, it still fulfills the criteria for number of
documents.

Rebecca

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:05:57 -0400
From: Milicent K Wewerka <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New ISO 639-2 code (fwd)

I don't think individual issues of a serial should count as separate
publications. According to my count, LC has perhaps 10 items (a combination
of print materials and sound recordings). Millie

>>> "Rebecca S. Guenther" <[log in to unmask]> 09/25/03 10:56AM >>>
I guess this looks like it's an artificial language? He claims we have 51
(but maybe some are about, not in the language). So I suppose it's in scope?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:57:45 -0400
From: WWW generic account <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: New ISO 639-2 code

This data was submitted on: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 at 18:57:45

lang_in_eng = Klingon, tlhIngan-Hol
lang_in_fre = Klingon
ref_where_found_1 = The Klingon Dictionary, Marc Okrand, 1992 lang_in_vern =
tlhIngan Hol ref_where_found_2 = The Klingon Dictionary, Marc Okrand, 1992
trans_lit = See above reference.

evidence = Klingon Language Institute (Flourtown, PA) -- thousands
(including email letters, web pages, literature in _jatmey_ journal, _The
Klingon Hamlet_ (two versions), _Gilgamesh_, _Much Ado About Nothing_,
several manuscripts in Klingon, four Master's theses on Klingon (three in
English, one in French), thousands of separate pieces of correspondence in
and about the language, over 100 works of fiction containing characters
claiming to speak the language, Klingon reference works in Klingon and
German, Portuguese, Italian, Czech, etc)

Library of Congress -- at least 51 (average of at least one per issue of
_HolQeD_ journal, which is archived there (47 to date), four issues of
_jatmey_ literary supplement (5-10 Klingon documents each), copies of _The
Klingon Hamlet_, _ghIlghameS_ (Klingon version of the epic of Gilgamesh),
_From the Grammarian's Desk_ (several Klingon documents in this), _paghmo'
tIn mIS_ (Klingon version of Much Ado About Nothing))

UCLA Research Library -- at least 51 (average of at least one per issue of
_HolQeD_ journal (47 to date), plus, four issues of _jatmey_, each with many
(5-10 or so) Klingon documents)

The International Museum of Peace and Solidarity, Samarkand, Uzbekistan
--
same as at UCLA


addinfo = Studied by language enthusiasts in the hundreds (at least), some
dozens of whom can and do speak it conversationally.

request_addition = ISO 639-2 only
2_code_suggestion =
3_code_suggestion = tlh
submit_name = Mark E. Shoulson
submit_email = [log in to unmask]
submit_status = Assistant Director of the Klingon Language Institute;
speaker of the language in question (fairly fluent but non-native; there are
no native speakers); Grammarian of the tlhIngan-Hol email list.




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