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EAD  September 2004

EAD September 2004

Subject:

Re: daoloc attribute

From:

"Hyslop, John" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Encoded Archival Description List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:03:13 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (304 lines)

After the WC3 recommendation for XML Linking Language (XLink) Version 1.0
http://www.w3.org/TR/xlink/, Mark's proposal seems to be appropriate for us.


The division is encoding a finding aid that describes a collection of
images.  We'd like to have a thumbnail of the image embedded in the finding
aid and have the user be able to see a larger version of the image.  I think
I understand how most of the <daogrp> element works.  I don't understand the
<resource> element and the FROM and TO attributes. 

John Hyslop
Assistant Division Manager
Long Island Division
Queens Borough Public Library
89-11 Merrick Boulevard
Jamaica, New York 11432
(718)990-0770

These opinions are my own and not those of the Queens Borough Public Library


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Carlson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 7:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: daoloc attribute

I realized after I sent off that example, that in the current environment,
where you would have at most two traversals for a unidirectional link (an
embedded resource and a resource that links away from the current page),
that it would have been better to put each image in its own <daogrp>
element.  That means you would have, at most, two <arc> elements using
this model.  This is much easier to deal with.  Here's how I would have
revised what I sent:

<daogrp>
<resource label="start"/>
<daoloc label="image" role="image/jpeg" href="firstimage.jpg"/>
<arc from="start" to="image" show="embed" actuate="onload"/>
</daogrp>

<daogrp>
<resource label="start"/>
<daoloc label="image" role="image/jpeg" href="secondimage.jpg"/>
<daoloc label="image2" role="image/jpeg" href="linkout2.jpg"/>
<arc from="start" to="image" show="embed" actuate="onload"/>
<arc from="image" to="image2" show="new" actuate="onrequest"/>
</daogrp>

<daogrp>
<resource label="start"/>
<daoloc label="image" role="image/jpeg" href="thirdimage.jpg"/>
<arc from="start" to="image" show="embed" actuate="onload"/>
</daogrp>

This also means that it is much easier to handle in XSLT, because you will
have, at most, two <arc> elements and if you had two <arc> elements, one
of them would have to be embedded.

Mark

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, André Kahle wrote:

> But then, what XSL is needed to transform this example into HTML?
>
> Andre Kahle
> SHLM & INFOKA
>
> A 11:18 2004/09/21 -0700, vous avez écrit :
> >I would argue that it is very difficult to create anything but a single
> >hyperlink with a simple-type linking element such as <extptr> or <extref>
> >because you can't create or establish any real *relationship* between the
> >elements because they are siblings.  How could you represent this type of
> >link using simple-type elements?
> >
> ><a href="largeimage.jpg" target="_blank">
> ><img src="smallimage.jpg" alt="image"/>
> ></a>
> >
> >You could use a combination of <extptr>/<extref> (etc.) elements, one
> >element set to show="embed" (I suppose this could imply that this is the
> ><img> element in HTML) and another set to show="new" (or "replace").
> >
> >However, what about the scenario where you want the first element to just
> >be an embedded image, and the second element doesn't have any connection
> >to the first element?  You would need some type of term that identifies
> >(or disassociates) this relationship.  So I think it could be just as
> >cumbersome to do this as to use an extended-type linking element where
you
> >can establish the relationship between resources, even with single,
> >uni-directional outbound links.
> >
> >In fact, using this scenario, you could create any number of embedded
> >images and link out from any selected number of them using an <arc>
> >element to establish to relationship between resources.  In this example,
> >the first and third images are just embedded images, while the second
> >image is embedded and also links out to another image.
> >
> ><img src="firstimage.jpg" alt="image"/>
> >
> ><a href="linkout1.jpg"><img src="secondimage.jpg" alt="image"/></a>
> >
> ><img src="thirdimage.jpg" alt="image"/>
> >
> >So we only want to link out from the second image.  We could represent
> >that like this:
> >
> >
> >This may seem needlessly complex, but the trade-off is that we have now
> >established the exact relationship between resources.  There is no
> >question as to which links belong together and how each is to be
> >traversed.
> >
> >If you never need to get any more complex that creating a single embedded
> >image or a single hyperlink, then I agree that this is way more work than
> >it is worth.  But if you want to go beyond the basics and really extend
> >the capabilities of EAD and XML, then I think my ideas are worth
> >considering, even in the present environment.
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Fox, Michael wrote:
> >
> >> Mark,
> >>    Thank you for sharing this interesting document.  I have several
> >> comments in response to the useful issue you raise.
> >>
> >> 1.  While it is both true that XLink is the linking mechanism for XML
> >> and that it can be used for simple and extended links, the truth is
that
> >> the environment in which we are now working is actually a mixture of
XML
> >> and HTML and that the linking capability we have is limited to the
> >> simple links now possible in HTML.  I am still waiting to see an all
XML
> >> environment where XLink actually functions in a global way and
extended,
> >> bi-directional links are possible.
> >>
> >> 2.  If this is the case, the use of XLink syntax to generate simple,
> >> uni-directional HTML links is needlessly complex and unnecessary.  It
is
> >> hardly necessary to generate the proper HTML output that would result
> >> from a transformation.  Theoretically interesting to be sure.  Am I
> >> missing something here?
> >>
> >> 3.  Your chart associates <extref> solely with the HTML <a> element but
> >> it might also need to generate an <img> element where the text in
> >> <extref> is used to produce a caption for an external image rather than
> >> the link text in an <a>.  The differentiation of these two possible
> >> outcomes, an HTML <a> or an HTML <img> in an HTML transformation, is
the
> >> reason why one needs the embed and new values in the show attribute
with
> >> <extptr>.
> >>
> >> Michael Fox
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Encoded Archival Description List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of
> >> Mark Carlson
> >> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:03 PM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: daoloc attribute
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't believe this is true.  XLink forms the basis for all linking
> >> elements in XML, both simple (extptr, etc.) and extended (daogrp,
linkgrp,
> >> etc.).  In the XLink specification, section 2.1, it states that "one of
> >> the common uses of XLink is to create hyperlinks".  A standard <A>
> >> hyperlink is called an "outbound" link in XLink and that type of link
can
> >> be created with a simple-type linking element or, as per section 5.2
> >> states, using as extended link to create simple link functionality (see
> >> example in this section "Simple Link Functionality Done with an
Extended
> >> Link").  But using an extended link in this way requires additional
> >> elements since the "behavior" attributes are contained in the <arc>
> >> element in EAD.  (Section 5).
> >>
> >> A document I'm working on presents one interpretation for how this
could
> >> be implementated using today's tools (for simple outbound links, that
> >> is).
> >>
> >> I would be interested in comments.
> >>
> >> http://staff.washington.edu/carlsonm/XLinkToEAD.pdf
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>   On Fri, 17 Sep 2004, Fox, Michael wrote:
> >>
> >> > I have been intrigued by this thread with respect to the <daoloc>
> element.    It is my understanding that this element is applicable only as
> part of an implementation of bi-directional links within an XLink-enabled
> technology and I was unaware of any broadly based implementation of same.
> If someone is using it, I would appreciate a pointer to the application as
> I've always wondered how this standard would play out in real life.
> >> >
> >> > Michael
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Encoded Archival Description List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
> Of Druscie Simpson
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:13 PM
> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >> > Subject: Re: daoloc attributes
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dietra,
> >> >
> >> > Ashley is working on this as well.  She received some code from Kathy
> Wisser, but, while it works just fine on Kathy's PC, it doesn't work on
> Ashley's!  Check with Ashley on Monday to see where she is on this.
> >> >
> >> > Druscie
> >> > _____________________________________________________________
> >> > Druscilla R. Simpson
> >> > Head, Information Technology Branch
> >> > N.C. State Archives
> >> > (919) 807-7319 (voice)
> >> > (919) 733-1354 (fax)
> >> > [log in to unmask]
> >> >
> >> > Opinions expressed in this message may not represent the policy of
this
> >> > agency.  E-Mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction of
> public
> >> > business, is subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may
be
> >> > disclosed to third parties.
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Dietra Stanley <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 12:11 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: daoloc attributes
> >> >
> >> > Hey John can you please forward me his reply...I am having
significant
> difficulty in adding dao's into my document also.
> >> >
> >> > Do you have a copy of what code i need to add to the style sheet and
> the dtd files in order for them to recognize i am inserting a dao into my
xml.
> >> >
> >> > gee thanx for any help
> >> >
> >> > dietra lynn
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Hyslop, John <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:34 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: daoloc attributes
> >> >
> >> > Thanks to Nick Mangine my confusion has been cleared up.
> >> >
> >> > John Hyslop
> >> > Assistant Division Manager
> >> > Long Island Division
> >> > Queens Borough Public Library
> >> > 89-11 Merrick Boulevard
> >> > Jamaica, New York 11432
> >> > (718)990-0770
> >> >
> >> > These opinions are my own and not those of the Queens Borough Public
> Library
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Hyslop, John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:17 AM
> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >> > Subject: daoloc attributes
> >> >
> >> > I'm a bit confused and a novice so bear with me.  In the EAD
> Application Guidelines Version 1.0, Figure 7.6c page 230 shows the daoloc
> element having the actuate and show attributes.  However the EAD DTD
> doesn't allow them and the Tag Library doesn't list them.  Why?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > John Hyslop
> >> > Assistant Division Manager
> >> > Long Island Division
> >> > Queens Borough Public Library
> >> > 89-11 Merrick Boulevard
> >> > Jamaica, New York 11432
> >> > (718)990-0770
> >> >
> >> > These opinions are my own and not those of the Queens Borough Public
> Library
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

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