LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  October 2005

ARSCLIST October 2005

Subject:

Re: original sequence of two Verve records

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:33:21 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (150 lines)

Thanks a lot for the info, Mike. I wish I had seen that CD out because I
would have bought it. I also wish I had bought more of the Japanese reissues
of Verve and Mercury jazz in the early 1990's because a lot of that material
never was released here and is now only sold as iTunes download (grrrr).

I would have guessed Capitol NYC but when you said Nola for the studio it
makes sense. Nola had a lot of thick drapes around so they got an isolated
sound where the small-group instruments are very precise. Capitol NYC had
pull-down or pull-across drapes, I think, based on photos I've seen but I
might be wrong. They, too, got tight isolation on individual instruments in
small-group jazz.

The guys with the huge discography site in Japan are very friendly but they
do indeed perpetuate old myths and errors. And they're slow on adding
corrected info, but they have a giant undertaking there. In their defense,
they own a lot of the Mercury LPs, for instance, and, knowing what I do
about how Polygram and then Universal keep some of these vault records, I'd
trust the original LP information over such sources as that multi-book
Mercury discography (which is full of errors).

Here's one huge myth that you can all take to the bank -- there was never
any such thing as a "Mercury Recording Studio" in the 50's and early 60's as
in a place where original jazz recordings were made. This shows up as the
"recording location" in some Polygram and Universal reissues and in many a
discography. Mercury had an editing/sequencing setup in their 5th Avenue
offices, which had its own take sheets and tape box labels saying "Mercury
Recording Studio." This was also used to make safeties of session tapes
(remember that in the "golden era", most sessions were recorded live to
full-track or two-track; the better studios ran two tapes at once, but
still, what you walked out with was it as far as original material). So,
many tapes ended up in the vault with Mercury Recording Studio stationary
and then the people overseeing the first round of Polygram/Verve reissues
dutifully reported that as the source of the recording. The myth was further
perpetuated in that multi-volume discography. For a brief time in the late
60's and/or perhaps early 70's, Mercury did have a recording room in
Manhattan, but this was mostly or totally used for rock albums. They also
briefly had a studio in San Francisco that was sold to Bill Putnam's studio
empire out there. This would have been late 60's timeframe.

As most know, Mercury/Emarcy and Verve are now one in the same for jazz. And
Impulse and GRP have been added under the umbrella since the
Universal/Polygram merger. I would assume Chess jazz is also part of that
whole thing.

I can speak a little bit to Mercury's historic preferences for studios for
jazz sessions. That doesn't mean that all sessions done in these cities were
done only at these studios, but these were the main players.

For New York: Fine Sound (1953-1956), Capitol NYC, Nola Penthouse Studio,
Fine Recording (1958-1971 but Mercury probably made their last jazz session
there in 1964), A&R from the early 60's onward, Bell Sound during their hot
period (early 60s), and probably a couple or a few at Olmstead. For Los
Angeles: Radio Recorders early on and then Capitol and later Bill Putnam's
studios. For Chicago: almost all at Putnam's Universal Studios.

For Verve, Norman Granz did most of his NYC mid-50's studio work at Fine
Sound and some at Fine Recording before he sold to MGM. He also did a lot of
work at Fulton Sound (might be officially called Fulton Studios) and did
some late 50's and very early 60's work at Olmstead (that fantastic-sounding
Buddy Rich album "Blue Caravan") and Capitol NYC and Nola. In California,
Granz did all or most work at Radio Recorders. I'm not totally sure who all
he used for live engineers but I know my father did some of the early Jazz
at the Philharmonic concert recordings in NY. In the late 40's and early
50's, Granz worked at Reeves Studios NYC. Come to think of it, there are
some Verve albums up into the 50's done at Reeves also.

From what I see on Verve reissue discs, there seem to be large gaps in the
documentation. Yet, as of the time that MGM was reissuing Verve on
budget-priced LPs, they usually had studio info and even the engineer's name
listed. And of course this info was listed on every Mercury jazz album for a
while, which particularly irks me when I see a reissue CD with wrong info.
Surely someone at the record company could just look at the LP jacket image
on the Japanese website (many if not most Mercury jazz LPs jacket images are
up there) if they have questions or doubts! In the case of the Impulse
albums, many of those covers are full of studio photographs, and many of the
engineers' names are listed so just a little sleuthing would turn up the
full info.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Fitzgerald" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] original sequence of two Verve records


> At 03:27 PM 10/17/2005, you wrote:
> >I'm hoping someone here has the original LPs of Harry "Sweets" Edison's
"The
> >Swinger" and "Mr. Swing" and can tell me the original song sequences of
> >these albums. Also, if someone has the 1999 briefly-available reissue CD
of
> >those records, can you tell me where the two extra songs are from, same
> >sessions or different sessions/lineups?
>
> I do not have the LPs, but do have the CD. It purports to present the
> material as originally issued (and all evidence supports this), so:
>
> [The Swinger - Verve MGVS 6037]
> Pussy Willow
> The Very Thought Of You
> Nasty
> The Strollers
> Sunday
> Fair Ground
>
> [Mr. Swing - Verve MGVS 6118]
> Love Is Here To Stay
> Short Coat
> Baby, Won't You Please Come Home?
> Impressario
> Ill Wind
>
>
> The two unissued tunes were from the same session (September 15, 1958
> at Nola Recording Studio). On the CD, they are at the ends of each
> disc. How Am I To Know? follows Fair Ground and Blues In The Closet
> follows Ill Wind.
>
>
> >PS -- the usually somewhat helpful jazzdisco.org discography was not too
> >helpful in this case.
>
> Just in case there is any confusion, the above website has nothing to
> do with me. My site is www.jazzdiscography.com - easily confused.
> Afraid I can't recommend the other one. As far as I can tell, they
> don't use the most up to date sources, perpetuate old errors,
> introduce new ones, and don't add much of anything to the body of
> knowledge in terms of original research.
>
> >PPS -- any idea why that 2-CD set was in print such a short time? The
only
> >format this stuff is available in now is crappy iTunes AAC.
>
> Verve Elite series CDs were marketed as limited edition from the
> start. If you really needed to know I could find the little sticker
> that said how many copies for this issue, but basically, as soon as
> this series began, I made it a point to purchase everything. And I'm
> glad I did.
>
> Completely agree about the downloadable situation.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> mike at JazzDiscography.com
> http://www.JazzDiscography.com

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager