I do not have 'golden ears' and I would expect your judgement to be better
than mine. I have recently upgraded my system and will listen again to the
two versions of 'Tabor'. However, the difference of opinion here is really
between Mark Obert-Thorne and yourself. With respect, his reputation is
second to none. Any comments from other parties would be most welcome.
Steve Abrams
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops question)
> Well, to each their own. The critics did not agree with you in most cases.
> The Mercury mono reissue CD's sold very well worldwide and are now
> available again as a 4 or 5CD (forgot which) set, all the Kubeliks. I
> personally greatly prefer the CD's to the original LPs (which we have
> excellent-condition copies of). Again, everyone's entitled to an opinion.
> I'll grant you that the master tapes were over 40 years old in 1996, but
> it was amazing how they played back OK. The LPs noisy surface may mask
> some of the limitations of tape, machine and microphone.
>
> If the "Tabor" is what I heard, we have very different opinions. I heard
> all sorts of digital artifacts, obvious tape degradation and a
> non-realistic stereo pickup. But again, to each their own.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Abrams" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops
> question)
>
>
>> What I am saying is that the Mercury Living Presence CD issued in 1996 of
>> "Ma Vlast" does not sound good. I remember the LPs sounding better
>> though I only had them on a cheap reissue in the UK on the Wing label.
>> The stereo issue of "Tabor" that I know came out last year on Music &
>> Arts and was restored by Mark Obert-Thorne. It sounds much better than
>> the mono version.
>>
>> Steve Abrams
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops
>> question)
>>
>>
>>> Hi Steve:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the RCA clarification. It was the same set of sessions I
>>> thought but different works.
>>>
>>> Yes, Bert Whyte was permitted by Mercury to bring his 2-track
>>> Magnecorder and place a pair of U-47 mics at the Kubelik session. Some
>>> of the tapes were issued on a small label CD in recent years and sound
>>> terrible to my ears. Could be the tape is deteriorated, could be the
>>> playback or transfer equipment wasn't good. Could be the engineer didn't
>>> properly line up the staggered tracks, etc. They definitely over-used
>>> digital noise-zapping tools so there are digi-artifacts galore. I
>>> imagine the tapes sounded better when they were new and played back on
>>> that Magnecorder.
>>>
>>> Bert's tapes were a personal experiment. Never intended for release. Not
>>> particularly praised or lauded by the professionals involved in the
>>> session. In fairness to Bert, this was pioneering in many respects, as
>>> was his pioneering use of magnetic film recording for Everest. Bert
>>> wrote a really nice column for Radio & TV News in 1956 about the day he
>>> was invited to the studio to hear the first Mercury 3-track tapes that
>>> were ready for release. He was treated to a full-monty 3-speaker
>>> extravaganza.
>>>
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Steve Abrams" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:18 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops
>>> question)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Not quite. The Munch Damnation of Faust in February 1954 was recorded
>>>> in stereo but only issued in mono. Something happened to the stereo
>>>> tapes. The Reiner recordings of Heldenleben and Salome's dance were
>>>> recorded on March 6th. Zarathustra came two days later on the 8th.
>>>> However - and you should be able to shed some light on this - some
>>>> stereo recordings were made by Bert Whyte at the December 1952 sessions
>>>> of the Chicago Symphony recording Ma Vlast under Kubelik. 'Tabor'
>>>> recorded on December 6th has recently been issued on Music and Arts in
>>>> a transfer by Obert-Thorne. The very unpleasant overload distortion on
>>>> the Mercury Living Presence mono set, very evident on the CD issue, is
>>>> not evident in the stereo version.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Abrams
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:10 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops
>>>> question)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'd be interested to know what's on them and who released them. I do
>>>>> not believe you'll find that they are in fact 2T stereo. They are
>>>>> likely half-track (2-sided) mono. If they are stereo, it would be very
>>>>> interesting to know who put them out as in 1952 only a few people were
>>>>> experimenting with 2-channel stereo recording of music. No major
>>>>> labels yet, although I believe RCA started making 2T masters in 1954
>>>>> or even 1953 -- I think Zarathustra with Reiner was the first 2T
>>>>> session.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jack Palmer" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:29 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops
>>>>> question)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I bought my first 2 track tapes for my reel recorder/player in the
>>>>>> Base Exchange in Sidi-Slimane, Morocco in 1952. I still have a
>>>>>> couple of them in fact. Jack
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:40 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops
>>>>>> question)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ampex developed their own, was developed by Leon Wortman in NY and
>>>>>>> detailed in a 1951 Radio & TV News article. Wortman's line made
>>>>>>> full-track or half-track tapes. Commercial half-track tapes were
>>>>>>> available as early as 1951 or 1952, but there was only a very small
>>>>>>> consumer market for reel to reel machines at that point. > Because
>>>>>>> this was a new format sold at a premium price, a lot of QC attention
>>>>>>> was paid by the reputable companies in this era, so the net quality
>>>>>>> is very high. Akin to what happened when stereo LPs came along.
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date:
>>>>> 07/04/2007 22:57
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> 07/04/2007 22:57
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date: 07/04/2007
> 22:57
>
>
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