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ARSCLIST  April 2007

ARSCLIST April 2007

Subject:

Re: commerical reels history (was Boston Pops question)

From:

Steve Abrams <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 9 Apr 2007 01:04:42 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (188 lines)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Lennick" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops question)


> Matter of fact I'm just listening to Tabor on what may be a first 
> pressing. Major breakup on the drums and tuttis about 5 minutes 
> in..cleaner with a .7 mil stylus (I first tried a 1-mil). Very clean 
> pressing, no surface noise.
>
> dl
>
> Tom Fine wrote:
>> Well, to each their own. The critics did not agree with you in most 
>> cases. The Mercury mono reissue CD's sold very well worldwide and are now 
>> available again as a 4 or 5CD (forgot which) set, all the Kubeliks. I 
>> personally greatly prefer the CD's to the original LPs (which we have 
>> excellent-condition copies of). Again, everyone's entitled to an opinion. 
>> I'll grant you that the master tapes were over 40 years old in 1996, but 
>> it was amazing how they played back OK. The LPs noisy surface may mask 
>> some of the limitations of tape, machine and microphone.
>>
>> If the "Tabor" is what I heard, we have very different opinions. I heard 
>> all sorts of digital artifacts, obvious tape degradation and a 
>> non-realistic stereo pickup. But again, to each their own.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Abrams" 
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>> question)
>>
>>
>>> What I am saying is that the Mercury Living Presence CD issued in 1996 
>>> of "Ma Vlast" does not sound good.  I remember the LPs sounding better 
>>> though I only had them on a cheap reissue in the UK on the Wing label. 
>>> The stereo issue of "Tabor" that I know came out last year on Music & 
>>> Arts and was restored by Mark Obert-Thorne.  It sounds much better than 
>>> the mono version.
>>>
>>> Steve Abrams
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" 
>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:02 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>> question)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Steve:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the RCA clarification. It was the same set of sessions I 
>>>> thought but different works.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Bert Whyte was permitted by Mercury to bring his 2-track 
>>>> Magnecorder and place a pair of U-47 mics at the Kubelik session. Some 
>>>> of the tapes were issued on a small label CD in recent years and sound 
>>>> terrible to my ears. Could be the tape is deteriorated, could be the 
>>>> playback or transfer equipment wasn't good. Could be the engineer 
>>>> didn't properly line up the staggered tracks, etc. They definitely 
>>>> over-used digital noise-zapping tools so there are digi-artifacts 
>>>> galore. I imagine the tapes sounded better when they were new and 
>>>> played back on that Magnecorder.
>>>>
>>>> Bert's tapes were a personal experiment. Never intended for release. 
>>>> Not particularly praised or lauded by the professionals involved in the 
>>>> session. In fairness to Bert, this was pioneering in many respects, as 
>>>> was his pioneering use of magnetic film recording for Everest.  Bert 
>>>> wrote a really nice column for Radio & TV News in 1956 about the day he 
>>>> was invited to the studio to hear the first Mercury 3-track tapes that 
>>>> were ready for release. He was treated to a full-monty 3-speaker 
>>>> extravaganza.
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Abrams" 
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:18 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>>> question)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Not quite.  The Munch Damnation of Faust in February 1954 was recorded 
>>>>> in stereo but only issued in mono. Something happened to the stereo 
>>>>> tapes. The Reiner recordings of  Heldenleben and Salome's dance were 
>>>>> recorded on March 6th.  Zarathustra came two days later on the 8th. 
>>>>> However - and you should be able to shed some light on this - some 
>>>>> stereo recordings were made by Bert Whyte at the December 1952 
>>>>> sessions of the Chicago Symphony recording Ma Vlast under Kubelik. 
>>>>> 'Tabor' recorded on December 6th has recently been issued on Music and 
>>>>> Arts in a transfer by Obert-Thorne. The very unpleasant overload 
>>>>> distortion on the Mercury Living Presence mono set, very evident on 
>>>>> the CD issue, is not evident in the stereo version.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Abrams
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" 
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:10 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>>>> question)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be interested to know what's on them and who released them. I do 
>>>>>> not believe you'll find that they are in fact 2T stereo. They are 
>>>>>> likely half-track (2-sided) mono. If they are stereo, it would be 
>>>>>> very interesting to know who put them out as in 1952 only a few 
>>>>>> people were experimenting with 2-channel stereo recording of music. 
>>>>>> No major labels yet, although I believe RCA started making 2T masters 
>>>>>> in 1954 or even 1953 -- I think Zarathustra with Reiner was the first 
>>>>>> 2T session.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Palmer" 
>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 12:29 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>>>>> question)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    I bought my first 2 track tapes for my reel recorder/player in 
>>>>>>> the Base Exchange in Sidi-Slimane, Morocco in 1952.  I still have a 
>>>>>>> couple of them in fact.   Jack
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine" 
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 9:40 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] commerical reels history (was Boston Pops 
>>>>>>> question)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ampex developed their own, was developed by Leon Wortman in NY and 
>>>>>>>> detailed in a 1951 Radio & TV News article. Wortman's line made 
>>>>>>>> full-track or half-track tapes. Commercial half-track tapes were 
>>>>>>>> available as early as 1951 or 1952, but there was only a very small 
>>>>>>>> consumer market for reel to reel machines at that point. > Because 
>>>>>>>> this was a new format sold at a premium price, a lot of QC 
>>>>>>>> attention was paid by the reputable companies in this era, so the 
>>>>>>>> net quality is very high. Akin to what happened when stereo LPs 
>>>>>>>> came along.
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date: 
>>>>>> 07/04/2007 22:57
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date: 
>>>> 07/04/2007 22:57
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/751 - Release Date: 07/04/2007 
> 22:57
>
> 

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