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ARSCLIST  December 2007

ARSCLIST December 2007

Subject:

Re: Folkways Reissues

From:

Roger and Allison Kulp <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:31:43 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (286 lines)

Fine.Other than donating money,what ?


                                Roger

Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]> wrote: You can hear materials on site.  You cannot expect the government to 
infringe its own copyright laws.  Would you like to loose the LOC to 
SONY/BMG as copyright reparations?

You want it to work differently, support ARSC's work trying to have the 
copyright laws revised.

Steve Smolian


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger and Allison Kulp" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Folkways Reissues


> As  somebody who is older than Garr,but younger than Mike,here let me say 
> that nobody likes to hear "In  my day..." stories.
>
> There is no excuse for an institution like The LOC making you go through a 
> process that is the equivalent of applying for a government security 
> clearance,in order to hear a recording.
>
> Why we just know al Queda wants to come over to our libraries,and listen 
> to Joseph Samuels,or Wilhem Bachaus !
>
> The solution isn't to gripe about it,it's to pressure LOC into changing 
> their policy.
>
> If I needed to listen to something for research,I wouldn't fool with some 
> place like them,unless it was a last resort.I would seek it out on the 
> web.Even if I had to pay $50.00 or more for an import/OOP CD.
>
>                                     Roger
>
> "Mike Biel, per David Lennick"  wrote: (From Mike 
> Biel, forwarded by DL)
>
> I have been FUMING here since I saw the original posting from Garr 
> Norwick,
> just itching to reply but having trouble posting thru web mail right now. 
> I am
> glad that there have been a couple of very good replies, such as this one 
> from
> John Ross and earlier from Jim Nelson.  But with his recent posting now I
> understand where Garr is coming from.  Without him admitting he is 23 I
> wouldn't have known it because his writing is more mature than that. I 
> don't
> know whether it makes me feel it excuses him or if he needs an 
> introduction to
> the real world.  After all, we were all 23 once, many of my students are 
> that
> age, and so is my daughter, Leah, who many of you know from here 
> attendance at
> ARSC.  I was once  a young whippersnapper sitting at the feet of the 
> pioneers
> of this field.  So Garr, come over here and listen to the Ole' Perfesser 
> tell
> you about the real world.
>
> Back around 1986 at the Chicago ARSC, when Tony Seeger first unveiled the
> Smithsonian's plans for the Asch and Cook archives, you could hear the 
> room
> heave a sigh of relief.  They were going to do a good job and it was going 
> to
> be CHEAP!!!!!!  Garr, FIFTEEN BUCKS IS CHEAP!!!!!!!  It was cheap twenty 
> years
> ago in the days of cassettes, and it is even MORE of a bargain now in the 
> days
> of CDs and inflation.  Dubs off the MASTER TAPES!!!  Photocopies of the
> original notes!!  We sometimes didn't get them with the original LPs. (Moe
> admitted that sometimes he didn't include them to force the purchasers to 
> send
> in the postcard so he could enlarge his mailing list!!!)  This was better 
> than
> going to Moe's office and trying to find a copy of the LP.
>
> Have you ever tried to get a recording out of the Library of Congress or 
> the
> National Archives thru their technical service depts?  Go on their web 
> sites
> and take a gander.  Also look at the hoops you will have to jump thru at 
> LC to
> get clearances before even getting permission to pay them to do the job. 
> Then
> take a look thru the names of some of the posters on this list who are
> professional restoration engineers. Sorry guys, because some of you are my
> friends of long standing, but some of your charges make LC look cheap!
>
> Garr, you and I are in a different world and different league from the 
> pros.
> We do it for fun, they have to feed their families on this. Even at the
> Government. As Bob Carneal, the then chief audio engineer at LC told me 30
> years ago, "Mike, the audio lab here at LC is not taxpayer supported.  We 
> have
> to pay our way with the work we do.  And we have to be able to defend 
> ourselves
> if we are accused of unfair competition with professional studios."
>
> Some of the guys on this list were also good friends of the late George
> Blacker.  We all have at least several boxes of reels of tape of all sizes 
> of
> some of the rarest records in the world with slips in them typed so full 
> of
> information that there are no margins on them.  George never asked a dime 
> from
> us.  We usually didn't know the tapes were coming.  We had just chatted 
> with
> George at a Syndicate meeting or on the phone and the subject of the 
> record
> came up or he just found it and knew we would also be interested in it. 
> Boy do
> I miss George.  Not because of all those tapes, but because he would have 
> been
> the number one poster on all of these internet lists. George, George, 
> George,
> what you missed, and what we all have missed without you. And lonely Bill
> Bryant up in Maine.  These lists are what he craved way up there.  Bill 
> also
> sent out tapes of rare records.  No charge.  And Milford Fargo.  (I don't 
> mean
> to break out the Kleenex box guys, but the story fits.  And these guys DO
> deserve our reverent memory)
> And these certainly were not and are not the only ones freely exchanging 
> time,
> information, and recordings.
>
> Perhaps it is not so ironic that as soon as I finish this I am going down 
> to
> school, and now that exams are over, I'm doing two dubbings I promised a 
> few
> weeks ago.  The Kiddierecordking is getting a dub of Molly Bee's Willy 
> Claus a
> client of his needs, and I am sending scans of the disc which Molly 
> autographed
> for me in October.  No charge, but I'm sure he will be returning with a 
> dub of
> the one childrens record I've not been able to re-collect from my 
> childhood.
> He showed me he did have a copy of it when I was over at his place.  Then 
> I am
> doing a CD dub of an uncoated aluminum disc for someone from California. 
> It
> was a Walter Garwick recording and we were hoping it might be a folkie, 
> but it
> is just a better version of a Florence Foster Jenkins type.  And next week 
> Neil
> Shell and I are going to exchange dubs of the one disc of the 1932 
> Shilkret RCA
> broadcast series that we each has that the other one is missing.  And I 
> have
> also done dubs of home discs or wires for people here in town for just 5 
> or 10
> bucks.  But this is not my business and I am not doing any fancy 
> restoration work.
>
> Garr, you and I are in the same boat as each other, just that I've been 
> doing
> it for forty years longer than you.  And some of the pros on this list 
> started
> out the same way but then went into business doing it.  Maybe you will 
> too.
> George, Bill, Milford, and I didn't.  We all had our day jobs.  (Well, 
> maybe
> George didn't, but he said he wanted to get a day job.)
>
> We should all be thankful that the Smithsonian provides that service. 
> Very few
> other archives do at that price.  And remember, all that we are doing is
> without paying any of the royalties that would be due in the commercial 
> world
> and would increase the price.  Since all of this I've discussed has been 
> in
> relationship with research and educational work that we do, or a technical 
> job
> for the owner of the non-professional original, we don't have the rights
> questions that was mentioned by others concerning the Smithsonian.
>
> Don't mean to lecture, but it come naturally.
>
> Mike (the old perfesser) Biel  [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> Quoting John Ross :
>
> > There's a huge difference between your making a one-off CD copy of a
> > recording and operating a business that provides a similar service from
> > a catalogue of several thousand titles.
> >
> > First, there's staff: not only a technician to burn the copies and
> > maintain the equipment, but also one or more archivists to catalogue
> > and maintain the collection; somebody to accept orders and handle
> > billing and payments; a webmaster to create and maintain the online
> > catalogue; and somebody to handle marketing and publicity. I'm probably
> > leaving something out.
> >
> > Second, in order to provide that special-order service, it's necessary
> > to create and maintain an extensive archive of audio files, cover art
> > and images of the booklets that accompanied every Folkways LP. That's
> > another cost.
> >
> > Third, unlike Moe Asch, who was notorious for being slow (or stagnant)
> > about paying royalties, the Smithsonian actually keeps track of sales
> > of those special orders and sends royalty payments to the performers on
> > those special-order items. As Tony Seeger, the former director of
> > Smithsonian/Folkways once told me, "As an agency of the U.S.
> > Government, we have an obligation to respect copyrights and performing
> > rights."
> >
> > Or consider the same question from another direction: If you're really
> > efficient, it might take you an hour to make a clean copy of a
> > 45-minute LP; more if it requires noise reduction, de-clicking or other
> > processing. Isn't your time worth more than $15 per hour?
> >
> > John Ross
> >
> > At  12/14/2007 07:35 AM, Garr Norick  wrote:
> >> Don't get me wrong... please understand that I admire what Folkways  is
> doing, and it is something that needs to be done... Maybe this 
> illustration
> will show me what I mean... I have a private  collection of music... I 
> have
> been collecting for 20 years, and I  am 23 years old... Say someone wanted 
> a CD
> dub of a recording in my  collection... I could transfer it onto CD and 
> xerox
> the liner notes  for them, and this would cost me at most one dollar. I 
> could
> charge  them five dollars for the whole thing, plus shipping, and make a 
> 500%
> profit... Smithsonian, a government entity, owns the rights to  all these
> masters outright... they probably buy blank CDs, labels,  and paper for 
> insert
> materials in massive quantities... thereby  saving money... in other 
> words,
> they probably don't have  considerable overhead aside from paying someone 
> to do
> these  transfers (which, understanding the importance of keeping this 
> music
> alive, would gladly do for them free of charge)... what I am  trying to 
> say
> >> is, all things considered, considering that they own the masters  and
> probably get the raw materials at or below wholesale pricing,  they could
> easily charge $10 a CD and make a nice profit on it (and  it probably 
> costs
> them less to make a custom CD than it does me,  because I buy my supplies 
> in
> retail quantities at retail prices). I  guess part of my point of view is 
> that
> I am a collector who has  always been on a shoestring budget. I sincerely 
> hope
> I did not  offend anyone.
> >>
> >>  Most Sincerely Yours,
> >>  G.E.
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
> >> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.2/1185 - Release Date: 
> 12/15/2007 12:00 PM
> 


       
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