On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:07:32 +0000, Dr R. Sanderson wrote
>
> There's going to be a LOT of boiler plate text just for the alleged
> advantage of using this spec.

I agree!

> In the end, it's going to look like:
>
> <entry>
> <id>Unknown-[timestamp]</id>
> <author>Unknown</author>
> <title>Unknown</title>
> <updated>Unknown</updated>
> <rights>Unknown</rights>
> <content>
> <sru:record>
> <sru:recordIdentifier>123455</sru:recordIdentifier>
> <sru:recordFormat>xml</sru:recordFormat>
> <sru:recordData> [data here] </sru:recordData>
> ...

When it looks good and well behaved..


> I have yet to see where the baby is in this bath?
>
> > ATOM 1.0 is an IETF standard and has mass market adoption because of its
> > simplicity and extensibility.
>
> XHTML is a much more widely adopted standard. Hence I propose that
> we should instead treat this as a micro-format or profile of XHTML.

Why not SUTRS.. Its widely adopted and simple! :-)

>
> > I am sure that we can find quite a handful of warts in the current SRU
> > response format (e.g. lack of even an option if author etc.)
>
> There's space for arbitrary metadata in extraRecordData and
> extraResponseData. We can't predict what metadata will be available
> or useful, so we don't try to mandate anything.

And they all can be extended...

> > Frankly I see missing these important attributes (particularly id) in an
> > information management context to be sacrilege. Having
> > these as required may be over kill but is is certainly better then underkill.
>
> SRU 1.2 has recordIdentifier. Or did you mean 'important'
> attributes like <title> and <author> of non bibliographic data?
>
> >> Or ... we could just say NO to mandatory ATOM.
> > This whole thread has taken a negative and adversarial stance towards ATOM
> > starting with its title and tone. Why?
>
> Personally, because I haven't seen any advantage in specifically
> using ATOM, and a lot of disadvantages. The only alleged advantage
> is that it's better understood (I debate the point, given the number
> of different semantics for the mandatory <id> element so far) and
> that the tools will deal with it natively, which I also debate given
> that we're going to have a lot of template text and then a bunch of
> namespaced elements that the tools will never have seen before.

Correct. As to "well understood"? We harvest Atom feeds and while most are
a bit better than their RSS cousins they too seem to have a high level of
non-compliance---- most driven by the manner they are produced in their
PHP-MySQL-CMS blogwares.

>
> > No spec is perfect. ATOM is only going to be better, more in demand and more
> > ubiquitous over time.
>
> Then lets wait until then before we make it the /mandatory and
> default/ response type. I'm happy with it being an /option/ just
> not mandatory and not the default one.

Agree. (I'm in shock that I would agree so much in full with Rob on anything)..

-----------------------------
Cinderella
Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm

Excerpt:

The two sisters were happy to hear this, for they had pretty feet. With her
mother standing by, the older one took the shoe into her bedroom to try it on.
She could not get her big toe into it, for the shoe was too small for her.
Then her mother gave her a knife and said, "Cut off your toe. When you are
queen you will no longer have to go on foot."

The girl cut off her toe, forced her foot into the shoe, swallowed the pain,
and went out to the prince. He took her on his horse as his bride and rode
away with her. However, they had to ride past the grave, and there, on the
hazel tree, sat the two pigeons, crying out:

  Rook di goo, rook di goo!
  There's blood in the shoe.
  The shoe is too tight,
  This bride is not right!

Then he looked at her foot and saw how the blood was running from it. He
turned his horse around and took the false bride home again, saying that she
was not the right one, and that the other sister should try on the shoe. She
went into her bedroom, and got her toes into the shoe all right, but her heel
was too large.

Then her mother gave her a knife, and said, "Cut a piece off your heel. When
you are queen you will no longer have to go on foot."

The girl cut a piece off her heel, forced her foot into the shoe, swallowed
the pain, and went out to the prince. He took her on his horse as his bride
and rode away with her. When they passed the hazel tree, the two pigeons were
sitting in it, and they cried out:

 Rook di goo, rook di goo!
 There's blood in the shoe.
 The shoe is too tight,
 This bride is not right!

He looked down at her foot and saw how the blood was running out of her shoe,
and how it had stained her white stocking all red. Then he turned his horse
around and took the false bride home again.

"This is not the right one, either," he said. "Don't you have another daughter?"

---------------

RSS or Atom are obviously the wrong daughters!


--

Edward C. Zimmermann, Basis Systeme netzwerk, Munich
Office Leo (R&D):
   Leopoldstrasse 53-55, D-80802 Munich,
   Federal Republic of Germany
http://www.nonmonotonic.net