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ARSCLIST  January 2008

ARSCLIST January 2008

Subject:

Re: Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Telefunken pressings Was:Pristine Audio (?!)

From:

Roger and Allison Kulp <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:15:46 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (113 lines)

Hi Don, 

If I may add something here.Capitol did,indeed,make their own stampers for these Lps.They also exported some of  these stampers,for some reason.I own three Australian Telefunken/Radiola Lps.One of these,is a 10" Lp,which I know where I can locate,is a Haydn symphony by Eugen Jochum.This is obviously pressed from a Capitol stamper,with the distinctive Capitol lettering,date,and mark that looks sort of like the state of Ohio,in the dead vinyl.I own two other Aussie Telefunken 12"s.The outstanding mono Schmidt-Isserstedt "New World", our friend at otterhouse once uploaded,and one of my Kulenkampffs.These appear to be from UK stampers,and are on German "pancake" type vinyl.

I also have one of the Keilberth mono Brahms,from the early 50s,that was pressed in the UK.This is definitely a Decca pressing.Perhaps Decca did in the UK,what Capitol did in the US ?

I also also own a rare South African stereo Telefunken,which I cannot locate right now,of one of the Keilberth stereo Beethovens from the 50s(Either #3,or #5.).This was pressed by HMV/EMI !!

I own two Franz Andres pressed in France,on 10" Lps.I have no idea who pressed them,or if they used German stampers or not.Anybody know ?

You can find all sorts of neat foreign pressings on eBone...

I'm sure weall know the story of Eli Oberstein's "RCA",and his issuances of Mengelberg's 1812.

The Capitol/Telefunken story was covered once or twice,in some detail,in the pages of the late,lamented International Classical Record Collector,I got those copies somewheres...

Are my Nippon Telefunken 78 sets from the 30s made with German stampers ?

I agree with you on the Telefunken shellacs,of the 30s,and 40s,but the early German Telefunken Lps are great too !I was stunned when I was able to do an A to B on them,not the same exact work,but two different Beethoven symphonies ,by Mengelberg.I also want to put in a good word,for those US Mercury/Philips Mengelbergs of the 60s.Did Tom's mom have a hand in those ?

                                 Roger

Don Tait <[log in to unmask]> wrote:   I'm very late, but may I comment about this topic? It has interested me for 
a long time.

  As I'm sure we all know, Capitol-Telefunken records were all dubbings made 
by Capitol from Telefunken originals. I no longer remember the full story 
(perhaps another member does: Steve Smolian?), but recall being told that Capitol 
was sent test pressings, probably vinyl, of Telefunken sides from the company 
in West Germany around 1948 and/or '49. Tape had come into use then, and the 
Capitol people taped the pressings and mastered them for 78, 45, and LP use. 
The Capitol-Telefunken releases, then, were never pressed from the original 
matrices. LP matrices were made from the dubbed matrices, too.

  They have a somewhat clouded, distant sonic character. During the 1960s an 
English friend who had some copies of both Capitol and Telefunken Mengelberg 
78s described the former as sounding "through a glass darkly." They certainly 
don't sound like real Telefunkens.

  I know. For many years I had Mengelberg's famous recording of the 1812 
Overture on Capitol 78s and LP and the Mercury LP. Stunning. Then I got a mint 
copy of the Telefunken 78s. I was astounded. The sound was/is far more vivid, 
clear, and colorful than any of the American transfers. They just don't compare. 
I have no words to describe how spectacular is the sound on these 1941 or '42 
Telefunken 78s except that it's high fidelity.

  Another thing about Capitol-Telefunkens: I am convinced that each dubbing 
for each speed was separately done. For instance, the Eroica. On the 78s, the 
penultimate chord of the fourth movement's coda is at a much lower level than 
the music immediately surrounding it. Not so on the 45s or LP. And I seem to 
recall that the 45 release of Mengelberg's Beethoven Creatures of Prometheus 
Overture is missing one of its isolated first chords. Not so the 
Capitol-Telefunken 78 or LP.

  An interesting topic.

  Don Tait

  

  


**************************************
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Haven't checked any of those old Mengelbergs for years (or any of the others, 
now that you mention it) but Capitol's issue of some Joseph Schmidt records was 
good enough for Telefunken to press from the Capitol stampers. Seems to me 
their dubs to 78 were also good. (Mercury's dubs of similar material, on the 
other hand....anyone remember the needle drop they left in on the Shostakovich 
piano LP?)

dl

Steven Smolian wrote:
> Stragely enough I recall decent 78 sound on some of the the brown-cover 
> Caoitol reissues from Telefunken.
> 
> Steve Smolian
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lennick" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Pristine Audio (?!)
> 
> 
>> Marcos Sueiro Bal wrote:
>>>
>>> Having said that, I always say that any transfer is usually better 
>>> than no transfer (unless you damage the original, of course).
>>>
>> Bullshit. Sorry. Bad transfers are bad transfers and do nothing to 
>> convert the very people we want to get to listen to something other 
>> than the latest hotshot tenor or headbanger. Most early LP transfers 
>> of 78s were holy horrors (wow, bad joins, level flux), even when they 
>> were dubbed from the 16-inch originals (Columbia's early LP transfers 
>> from English and European 78s are unspeakably bad by any standards) 
>> and these were followed by attempts to "modernize" them with reverb 
>> and bad EQ and then squeeze 33 minutes onto a twelve-inch side. 
>> Camdens for the most part were even worse. It's no wonder that a 
>> generation or two had no respect for the previous 25 years of recorded 
>> sound when it was presented to them in that manner.
>>
>> dl 
> 
> 


       
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