Although I'm not a voting member, it seems to me that it would be better
to have a formal ballot on all changes. Are you going to begin to have
separate French and English balloting? That sounds like a bad idea.

Milicent Wewerka

>>> Peter Constable <[log in to unmask]> 01/11/08 11:04 AM >>>
Apart from the creole & pidgen entries and the car entry, it looks like
all the "+" entries in your table involve changes in (and only in) the
French name. In that case, I'd need to defer to French experts, and my
ballot for all of these would simply copy Anila. I'd be content to skip
the ballot in those cases and allow our French experts to decide on
these. But if others want all of these balloted, I'm also OK with that.


Peter



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Peter Constable
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:52 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
>
> Thanks, Havard. If I count right, there are 17 "+" items we'd be
> balloting, if we agreed on balloting all and only those items.
>
>
> Peter
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of Håvard Hjulstad
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:27 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> >
> >
> > Thank you, Peter. I have made the corrections in the table:
> > nai : L
> > Nic : L +
> > Smi : L +
> > Tai : L +
> >
> > Going through the table once more I also found the following
changes
> > appropriate:
> > Bai : changed from - to +
> > Khi : changed from L to L +
> >
> > The Creoles and pidgins are "actually" of the "L category", but I
> have
> > marked them "L +" since we cannot insert the word "languages".
> >
> > All "+ changes" are based on input from experts during the
> development
> > of 639-5.
> >
> > The new table is enclosed as document JAC N 60 (as Word and pdf
> files).
> > It is also available on the ISO Livelink system (in the JAC folder
> > under ISO/TC 37).
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Håvard
> >
> > --------------------
> > Håvard Hjulstad
> > Standard Norge / Standards Norway
> > [log in to unmask]
> > --------------------
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:03 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> >
> > I agree: vote on "+" items but not others.
> >
> > A few comments on the table:
> >
> > - nai is marked "+" but it seems like it should be "L"
> >
> > - nic is marked "L" but it seems like it should be marked "+" or
"L+"
> >
> > - smi: the French name from table 3 is "sames, langues" rather
than
> > "sami, langues"; I assume that's intended? (It's marked "+" so
would
> > get reviewed in balloting, if we ballot "+" items.)
> >
> > - tai is marked "L" but it seems like it should be marked "+" or
"L+"
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> > > Behalf Of Milicent K Wewerka
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:43 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > >
> > > Perhaps the items with "+" for other changes should be balloted
> > > separately with an indication of the nature of the additional
> changes.
> > >
> > > Milicent Wewerka, Library of Congress
> > >
> > >
> > > >>> Håvard Hjulstad <[log in to unmask]> 01/09/08 5:34 AM >>>
> > >
> > > I agree with Peter's general statement below (and would have
> > expressed
> > > that if I had a vote ... :)
> > >
> > > Formalities: Do we need a formal ballot? Do we need to split the
> > > ballot somehow into individual items?
> > >
> > > The following table, which is a combination of table A.1 and
table
> 3
> > > from FDIS 639-5 should include all items in question. Items from
> > table
> > > A.1 (in green, if the colour coding goes through the email
> > > distribution
> > > list) should be identical with the current status of 639-2.
Items
> > from
> > > table 3 of 639-5 (in red) would be the suggested form also for
Part
> 2.
> > > In the last column I have indicated the changes: "L" = change
> > "(Other)"
> > > to "languages" in English, and delete the word "autres" in
French;
> > "+"
> > > =
> > > other changes in Part 2; "-" = no changes needed in Part 2.
> > >
> > > Identifier English name French name Table Change
> > > afa Afro-Asiatic (Other) afro-asiatiques, autres langues
A.1
> > > afa Afro-Asiatic languages afro-asiatiques, langues 3
L
> > > alg Algonquian languages algonquines, langues A.1
> > > alg Algonquian languages algonquines, langues 3 -
> > > apa Apache languages apache A.1
> > > apa Apache languages apache, langues 3 +
> > > art Artificial (Other) artificielles, autres langues
A.1
> > > art Artificial languages artificielles, langues 3 L
> > > ath Athapascan languages athapascanes, langues A.1
> > > ath Athapascan languages athapascanes, langues 3 -
> > > aus Australian languages australiennes, langues A.1
> > > aus Australian languages australiennes, langues 3 -
> > > bad Banda languages banda, langues A.1
> > > bad Banda languages banda, langues 3 -
> > > bai Bamileke languages bamilékés, langues A.1
> > > bai Bamileke languages bamiléké, langues 3 -
> > > bat Baltic (Other) baltiques, autres langues A.1
> > > bat Baltic languages baltiques, langues 3 L
> > > ber Berber (Other) berbères, autres langues A.1
> > > ber Berber languages berbères, langues 3 L
> > > bnt Bantu (Other) bantoues, autres langues A.1
> > > bnt Bantu languages bantoues, langues 3
L
> > > btk Batak languages batak, langues A.1
> > > btk Batak languages batak, langues 3 -
> > > cai Central American Indian (Other) indiennes d'Amérique
> centrale,
> > autres langues A.1
> > > cai Central American Indian languages indiennes
> d'Amérique
> > centrale, langues 3 L
> > > car Carib caribe A.1
> > > car Carib languages caribes, langues 3
+
> > > cau Caucasian (Other) caucasiennes, autres langues A.1
> > > cau Caucasian languages caucasiennes, langues 3 L
> > > cel Celtic (Other) celtiques, autres langues A.1
> > > cel Celtic languages celtiques, langues 3 L
> > > cmc Chamic languages chames, langues A.1
> > > cmc Chamic languages chames, langues 3 -
> > > cpe Creoles and pidgins, English-based (Other) créoles
et
> > pidgins anglais, autres A.1
> > > cpe Creoles and pidgins, English-based créoles et
pidgins
> > anglais 3 +
> > > cpf Creoles and pidgins, French-based (Other) créoles
et
> > pidgins français, autres A.1
> > > cpf Creoles and pidgins, French-based créoles et
pidgins
> > français 3 +
> > > cpp Creoles and pidgins, Portuguese-based (Other) créoles
et
> > pidgins portugais, autres A.1
> > > cpp Creoles and pidgins, Portuguese-based créoles et
pidgins
> > portugais 3 +
> > > crp Creoles and pidgins (Other) créoles et pidgins
divers
> > A.1
> > > crp Creoles and pidgins créoles et pidgins 3 +
> > > cus Cushitic (Other) couchitiques, autres langues A.1
> > > cus Cushitic languages couchitiques, langues 3 L
> > > dra Dravidian (Other) dravidiennes, autres langues A.1
> > > dra Dravidian languages dravidiennes, langues 3 L
> > > fiu Finno-Ugrian (Other) finno-ougriennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > fiu Finno-Ugrian languages finno-ougriennes, langues 3
L
> > > gem Germanic (Other) germaniques, autres langues A.1
> > > gem Germanic languages germaniques, langues 3 L
> > > ijo Ijo languages ijo, langues A.1
> > > ijo Ijo languages ijo, langues 3 -
> > > inc Indic (Other) indo-aryennes, autres langues
A.1
> > > inc Indic languages indo-aryennes, langues 3
L
> > > ine Indo-European (Other) indo-européennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > ine Indo-European languages indo-européennes, langues 3
L
> > > ira Iranian (Other) iraniennes, autres langues A.1
> > > ira Iranian languages iraniennes, langues 3 L
> > > iro Iroquoian languages iroquoises, langues (famille)
> > A.1
> > > iro Iroquoian languages iroquoises, langues 3 +
> > > kar Karen languages karen, langues A.1
> > > kar Karen languages karen, langues 3 -
> > > khi Khoisan (Other) khoisan, autres langues A.1
> > > khi Khoisan languages khoïsan, langues 3 L
> > > kro Kru languages krou, langues A.1
> > > kro Kru languages krou, langues 3 -
> > > map Austronesian (Other) malayo-polynésiennes, autres
> langues
> > A.1
> > > map Austronesian languages austronésiennes, langues 3
L
> +
> > > mkh Mon-Khmer (Other) môn-khmer, autres langues A.1
> > > mkh Mon-Khmer languages môn-khmer, langues 3 L
> > > mno Manobo languages manobo, langues A.1
> > > mno Manobo languages manobo, langues 3 -
> > > mun Munda languages mounda, langues A.1
> > > mun Munda languages mounda, langues 3 -
> > > myn Mayan languages maya, langues A.1
> > > myn Mayan languages mayas, langues 3 +
> > > nah Nahuatl languages nahuatl, langues A.1
> > > nah Nahuatl languages nahuatl, langues 3 -
> > > nai North American Indian (Other) indiennes d'Amérique du
> Nord,
> > autres langues A.1
> > > nai North American Indian languages indiennes d'Amérique du
> Nord,
> > langues 3 +
> > > nic Niger-Kordofanian (Other) nigéro-congolaises,
autres
> > langues A.1
> > > nic Niger-Kordofanian languages nigéro-kordofaniennes,
> > langues 3 L
> > > nub Nubian languages nubiennes, langues A.1
> > > nub Nubian languages nubiennes, langues 3 -
> > > oto Otomian languages otomangue, langues A.1
> > > oto Otomian languages otomi, langues 3 +
> > > paa Papuan (Other) papoues, autres langues A.1
> > > paa Papuan languages papoues, langues 3 L
> > > phi Philippine (Other) philippines, autres langues A.1
> > > phi Philippine languages philippines, langues 3 L
> > > pra Prakrit languages prâkrit A.1
> > > pra Prakrit languages prâkrits, langues 3 +
> > > roa Romance (Other) romanes, autres langues A.1
> > > roa Romance languages romanes, langues 3 L
> > > sai South American Indian (Other) indiennes d'Amérique du
Sud,
> > autres langues A.1
> > > sai South American Indian languages indiennes d'Amérique du
Sud,
> > langues 3 L
> > > sal Salishan languages salish, langues A.1
> > > sal Salishan languages salish, langues 3 -
> > > sem Semitic (Other) sémitiques, autres langues A.1
> > > sem Semitic languages sémitiques, langues 3 L
> > > sgn sign languages langues des signes A.1
> > > sgn sign languages langues des signes 3
-
> > > sio Siouan languages sioux, langues A.1
> > > sio Siouan languages sioux, langues 3 -
> > > sit Sino-Tibetan (Other) sino-tibétaines, autres langues
A.1
> > > sit Sino-Tibetan languages sino-tibétaines, langues 3
L
> > > sla Slavic (Other) slaves, autres langues A.1
> > > sla Slavic languages slaves, langues 3 L
> > > smi Sami languages (Other) sami, autres langues A.1
> > > smi Sami languages sames, langues 3 (L)
> > > son Songhai languages songhai, langues A.1
> > > son Songhai languages songhai, langues 3 -
> > > ssa Nilo-Saharan (Other) nilo-sahariennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > ssa Nilo-Saharan languages nilo-sahariennes, langues 3
L
> > > tai Tai (Other) thaïes, autres langues A.1
> > > tai Tai languages tai, langues 3 L
> > > tup Tupi languages tupi, langues A.1
> > > tup Tupi languages tupi, langues 3 -
> > > tut Altaic (Other) altaïques, autres langues A.1
> > > tut Altaic languages altaïques, langues 3 L
> > > wak Wakashan languages wakashennes, langues A.1
> > > wak Wakashan languages wakash, langues 3 +
> > > wen Sorbian languages sorabes, langues A.1
> > > wen Sorbian languages sorabes, langues 3 -
> > > ypk Yupik languages yupik, langues A.1
> > > ypk Yupik languages yupik, langues 3 -
> > > znd Zande languages zandé, langues A.1
> > > znd Zande languages zandé, langues 3 -
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Håvard
> > >
> > > --------------------
> > > Håvard Hjulstad
> > > Standard Norge / Standards Norway
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > --------------------
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> > > Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:39 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > >
> > > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> > > > Behalf Of Rebecca S. Guenther
> > >
> > >
> > > > So if we were to change the (Other) to Languages, would that
help
> > > with
> > > > the IETF concerns?
> > >
> > > Yes. The biggest IETF concerns have to do with stability of the
> > > semantic/ID association. Making that change eliminates the
inherent
> > > instability.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks very much.
> > >
> > > Peter