It's been a few weeks. Havard: are you planning to have ballots on all the "+" items from your list?
Thanks,
Peter.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Peter Constable
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 1:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
>
> Valid point; conceded.
>
> Peter
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > Behalf Of Milicent K Wewerka
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 8:26 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> >
> > Although I'm not a voting member, it seems to me that it would be
> > better
> > to have a formal ballot on all changes. Are you going to begin to
> have
> > separate French and English balloting? That sounds like a bad idea.
> >
> > Milicent Wewerka
> >
> > >>> Peter Constable <[log in to unmask]> 01/11/08 11:04 AM >>>
> > Apart from the creole & pidgen entries and the car entry, it looks
> like
> > all the "+" entries in your table involve changes in (and only in)
> the
> > French name. In that case, I'd need to defer to French experts, and
> my
> > ballot for all of these would simply copy Anila. I'd be content to
> skip
> > the ballot in those cases and allow our French experts to decide on
> > these. But if others want all of these balloted, I'm also OK with
> that.
> >
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > > Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:52 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > >
> > > Thanks, Havard. If I count right, there are 17 "+" items we'd be
> > > balloting, if we agreed on balloting all and only those items.
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > > > Behalf Of Håvard Hjulstad
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:27 AM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you, Peter. I have made the corrections in the table:
> > > > nai : L
> > > > Nic : L +
> > > > Smi : L +
> > > > Tai : L +
> > > >
> > > > Going through the table once more I also found the following
> > changes
> > > > appropriate:
> > > > Bai : changed from - to +
> > > > Khi : changed from L to L +
> > > >
> > > > The Creoles and pidgins are "actually" of the "L category", but I
> > > have
> > > > marked them "L +" since we cannot insert the word "languages".
> > > >
> > > > All "+ changes" are based on input from experts during the
> > > development
> > > > of 639-5.
> > > >
> > > > The new table is enclosed as document JAC N 60 (as Word and pdf
> > > files).
> > > > It is also available on the ISO Livelink system (in the JAC
> folder
> > > > under ISO/TC 37).
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Håvard
> > > >
> > > > --------------------
> > > > Håvard Hjulstad
> > > > Standard Norge / Standards Norway
> > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > --------------------
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> > > > Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:03 PM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > > >
> > > > I agree: vote on "+" items but not others.
> > > >
> > > > A few comments on the table:
> > > >
> > > > - nai is marked "+" but it seems like it should be "L"
> > > >
> > > > - nic is marked "L" but it seems like it should be marked "+" or
> > "L+"
> > > >
> > > > - smi: the French name from table 3 is "sames, langues" rather
> > than
> > > > "sami, langues"; I assume that's intended? (It's marked "+" so
> > would
> > > > get reviewed in balloting, if we ballot "+" items.)
> > > >
> > > > - tai is marked "L" but it seems like it should be marked "+" or
> > "L+"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Milicent K Wewerka
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 4:43 AM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > > > >
> > > > > Perhaps the items with "+" for other changes should be balloted
> > > > > separately with an indication of the nature of the additional
> > > changes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Milicent Wewerka, Library of Congress
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >>> Håvard Hjulstad <[log in to unmask]> 01/09/08 5:34 AM >>>
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with Peter's general statement below (and would have
> > > > expressed
> > > > > that if I had a vote ... :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Formalities: Do we need a formal ballot? Do we need to split
> the
> > > > > ballot somehow into individual items?
> > > > >
> > > > > The following table, which is a combination of table A.1 and
> > table
> > > 3
> > > > > from FDIS 639-5 should include all items in question. Items
> from
> > > > table
> > > > > A.1 (in green, if the colour coding goes through the email
> > > > > distribution
> > > > > list) should be identical with the current status of 639-2.
> > Items
> > > > from
> > > > > table 3 of 639-5 (in red) would be the suggested form also for
> > Part
> > > 2.
> > > > > In the last column I have indicated the changes: "L" = change
> > > > "(Other)"
> > > > > to "languages" in English, and delete the word "autres" in
> > French;
> > > > "+"
> > > > > =
> > > > > other changes in Part 2; "-" = no changes needed in Part 2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Identifier English name French name Table Change
> > > > > afa Afro-Asiatic (Other) afro-asiatiques, autres langues
> > A.1
> > > > > afa Afro-Asiatic languages afro-asiatiques, langues 3
> > L
> > > > > alg Algonquian languages algonquines, langues A.1
> > > > > alg Algonquian languages algonquines, langues 3 -
> > > > > apa Apache languages apache A.1
> > > > > apa Apache languages apache, langues 3 +
> > > > > art Artificial (Other) artificielles, autres langues
> > A.1
> > > > > art Artificial languages artificielles, langues 3
> L
> > > > > ath Athapascan languages athapascanes, langues A.1
> > > > > ath Athapascan languages athapascanes, langues 3 -
> > > > > aus Australian languages australiennes, langues A.1
> > > > > aus Australian languages australiennes, langues 3
> -
> > > > > bad Banda languages banda, langues A.1
> > > > > bad Banda languages banda, langues 3 -
> > > > > bai Bamileke languages bamilékés, langues A.1
> > > > > bai Bamileke languages bamiléké, langues 3 -
> > > > > bat Baltic (Other) baltiques, autres langues A.1
> > > > > bat Baltic languages baltiques, langues 3 L
> > > > > ber Berber (Other) berbères, autres langues A.1
> > > > > ber Berber languages berbères, langues 3 L
> > > > > bnt Bantu (Other) bantoues, autres langues A.1
> > > > > bnt Bantu languages bantoues, langues 3
> > L
> > > > > btk Batak languages batak, langues A.1
> > > > > btk Batak languages batak, langues 3 -
> > > > > cai Central American Indian (Other) indiennes d'Amérique
> > > centrale,
> > > > autres langues A.1
> > > > > cai Central American Indian languages indiennes
> > > d'Amérique
> > > > centrale, langues 3 L
> > > > > car Carib caribe A.1
> > > > > car Carib languages caribes, langues 3
> > +
> > > > > cau Caucasian (Other) caucasiennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > > > cau Caucasian languages caucasiennes, langues 3 L
> > > > > cel Celtic (Other) celtiques, autres langues A.1
> > > > > cel Celtic languages celtiques, langues 3 L
> > > > > cmc Chamic languages chames, langues A.1
> > > > > cmc Chamic languages chames, langues 3 -
> > > > > cpe Creoles and pidgins, English-based (Other) créoles
> > et
> > > > pidgins anglais, autres A.1
> > > > > cpe Creoles and pidgins, English-based créoles et
> > pidgins
> > > > anglais 3 +
> > > > > cpf Creoles and pidgins, French-based (Other) créoles
> > et
> > > > pidgins français, autres A.1
> > > > > cpf Creoles and pidgins, French-based créoles et
> > pidgins
> > > > français 3 +
> > > > > cpp Creoles and pidgins, Portuguese-based (Other) créoles
> > et
> > > > pidgins portugais, autres A.1
> > > > > cpp Creoles and pidgins, Portuguese-based créoles et
> > pidgins
> > > > portugais 3 +
> > > > > crp Creoles and pidgins (Other) créoles et pidgins
> > divers
> > > > A.1
> > > > > crp Creoles and pidgins créoles et pidgins 3 +
> > > > > cus Cushitic (Other) couchitiques, autres langues
> A.1
> > > > > cus Cushitic languages couchitiques, langues 3 L
> > > > > dra Dravidian (Other) dravidiennes, autres langues
> A.1
> > > > > dra Dravidian languages dravidiennes, langues 3 L
> > > > > fiu Finno-Ugrian (Other) finno-ougriennes, autres
> langues
> > > A.1
> > > > > fiu Finno-Ugrian languages finno-ougriennes, langues 3
> > L
> > > > > gem Germanic (Other) germaniques, autres langues A.1
> > > > > gem Germanic languages germaniques, langues 3 L
> > > > > ijo Ijo languages ijo, langues A.1
> > > > > ijo Ijo languages ijo, langues 3 -
> > > > > inc Indic (Other) indo-aryennes, autres langues
> > A.1
> > > > > inc Indic languages indo-aryennes, langues 3
> > L
> > > > > ine Indo-European (Other) indo-européennes, autres
> langues
> > > A.1
> > > > > ine Indo-European languages indo-européennes, langues 3
> > L
> > > > > ira Iranian (Other) iraniennes, autres langues A.1
> > > > > ira Iranian languages iraniennes, langues 3 L
> > > > > iro Iroquoian languages iroquoises, langues (famille)
> > > > A.1
> > > > > iro Iroquoian languages iroquoises, langues 3 +
> > > > > kar Karen languages karen, langues A.1
> > > > > kar Karen languages karen, langues 3 -
> > > > > khi Khoisan (Other) khoisan, autres langues A.1
> > > > > khi Khoisan languages khoïsan, langues 3 L
> > > > > kro Kru languages krou, langues A.1
> > > > > kro Kru languages krou, langues 3 -
> > > > > map Austronesian (Other) malayo-polynésiennes, autres
> > > langues
> > > > A.1
> > > > > map Austronesian languages austronésiennes, langues 3
> > L
> > > +
> > > > > mkh Mon-Khmer (Other) môn-khmer, autres langues A.1
> > > > > mkh Mon-Khmer languages môn-khmer, langues 3 L
> > > > > mno Manobo languages manobo, langues A.1
> > > > > mno Manobo languages manobo, langues 3 -
> > > > > mun Munda languages mounda, langues A.1
> > > > > mun Munda languages mounda, langues 3 -
> > > > > myn Mayan languages maya, langues A.1
> > > > > myn Mayan languages mayas, langues 3 +
> > > > > nah Nahuatl languages nahuatl, langues A.1
> > > > > nah Nahuatl languages nahuatl, langues 3 -
> > > > > nai North American Indian (Other) indiennes d'Amérique du
> > > Nord,
> > > > autres langues A.1
> > > > > nai North American Indian languages indiennes d'Amérique du
> > > Nord,
> > > > langues 3 +
> > > > > nic Niger-Kordofanian (Other) nigéro-congolaises,
> > autres
> > > > langues A.1
> > > > > nic Niger-Kordofanian languages nigéro-kordofaniennes,
> > > > langues 3 L
> > > > > nub Nubian languages nubiennes, langues A.1
> > > > > nub Nubian languages nubiennes, langues 3 -
> > > > > oto Otomian languages otomangue, langues A.1
> > > > > oto Otomian languages otomi, langues 3 +
> > > > > paa Papuan (Other) papoues, autres langues A.1
> > > > > paa Papuan languages papoues, langues 3 L
> > > > > phi Philippine (Other) philippines, autres langues A.1
> > > > > phi Philippine languages philippines, langues 3 L
> > > > > pra Prakrit languages prâkrit A.1
> > > > > pra Prakrit languages prâkrits, langues 3 +
> > > > > roa Romance (Other) romanes, autres langues A.1
> > > > > roa Romance languages romanes, langues 3 L
> > > > > sai South American Indian (Other) indiennes d'Amérique du
> > Sud,
> > > > autres langues A.1
> > > > > sai South American Indian languages indiennes d'Amérique du
> > Sud,
> > > > langues 3 L
> > > > > sal Salishan languages salish, langues A.1
> > > > > sal Salishan languages salish, langues 3 -
> > > > > sem Semitic (Other) sémitiques, autres langues A.1
> > > > > sem Semitic languages sémitiques, langues 3 L
> > > > > sgn sign languages langues des signes A.1
> > > > > sgn sign languages langues des signes 3
> > -
> > > > > sio Siouan languages sioux, langues A.1
> > > > > sio Siouan languages sioux, langues 3 -
> > > > > sit Sino-Tibetan (Other) sino-tibétaines, autres langues
> > A.1
> > > > > sit Sino-Tibetan languages sino-tibétaines, langues 3
> > L
> > > > > sla Slavic (Other) slaves, autres langues A.1
> > > > > sla Slavic languages slaves, langues 3 L
> > > > > smi Sami languages (Other) sami, autres langues A.1
> > > > > smi Sami languages sames, langues 3 (L)
> > > > > son Songhai languages songhai, langues A.1
> > > > > son Songhai languages songhai, langues 3 -
> > > > > ssa Nilo-Saharan (Other) nilo-sahariennes, autres
> langues
> > > A.1
> > > > > ssa Nilo-Saharan languages nilo-sahariennes, langues 3
> > L
> > > > > tai Tai (Other) thaïes, autres langues A.1
> > > > > tai Tai languages tai, langues 3 L
> > > > > tup Tupi languages tupi, langues A.1
> > > > > tup Tupi languages tupi, langues 3 -
> > > > > tut Altaic (Other) altaïques, autres langues A.1
> > > > > tut Altaic languages altaïques, langues 3 L
> > > > > wak Wakashan languages wakashennes, langues A.1
> > > > > wak Wakashan languages wakash, langues 3 +
> > > > > wen Sorbian languages sorabes, langues A.1
> > > > > wen Sorbian languages sorabes, langues 3 -
> > > > > ypk Yupik languages yupik, langues A.1
> > > > > ypk Yupik languages yupik, langues 3 -
> > > > > znd Zande languages zandé, langues A.1
> > > > > znd Zande languages zandé, langues 3 -
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Håvard
> > > > >
> > > > > --------------------
> > > > > Håvard Hjulstad
> > > > > Standard Norge / Standards Norway
> > > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > > --------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Peter Constable
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:39 AM
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Re: decision required: "other" collections
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Rebecca S. Guenther
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > So if we were to change the (Other) to Languages, would that
> > help
> > > > > with
> > > > > > the IETF concerns?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. The biggest IETF concerns have to do with stability of the
> > > > > semantic/ID association. Making that change eliminates the
> > inherent
> > > > > instability.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks very much.
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter
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