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ARSCLIST  March 2008

ARSCLIST March 2008

Subject:

Re: Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Philips U.S. releases in the 60's

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 16:33:24 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (214 lines)

Hi Don:

I can confirm the Handel album you mentioned. I just bought a World Series LP of it, not a bad 
pressing and nice sound quality. The first time I heard it was on an Epic-branded reel tape. I think 
there were a few I Musici albums also that started life in the U.S. as Epic and later were on 
Philips/Mercury.

As for your report on the pressings, as I understand it Philips greatly improved Mercury's Richmond 
plant when they bought it. As you probably know, the Living Presence records up until 1965 or so 
were pressed by RCA because it was felt that Mercury's own plants didn't do as good quality. Later 
60's Mercury records were definitely pressed at Mercury Richmond, as were reissues/re-combinations 
of the earlier catalog originally pressed by RCA.

I definitely agree that Philips imports that had been pressed in Holland were generally excellent 
pressings. As I understand it, LPs were more a luxury purchase and less a commodity in the European 
economy, so pressings were always better due to better pricing and better margins. In the U.S., 
particularly in the late 60's thru the 70's economic malaise, LPs were generally poorly made, sold 
cheap and profits were built on volume and not margins. This was not true universally, of course.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Tait" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:09 PM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Fwd: [ARSCLIST] Philips U.S. releases in the 60's


>  I have only noticed this thread today. I hope it isn't too late to reply to
> Tom's question, because I remember Epic Records and the Philips connection
> very well.
>
>  The classical American Philips LPs in heavy cardboard sleeves were entirely
> manufactured in the USA. By Mercury. The series began, if I recall correctly,
> in or around 1961. The mono catalogue numerical series was PHM500-xxx, the
> stereo PHS900-xxx -- different from any European Philips numbering system. The
> early pressings read "Philips Records Chicago 1, Illinois" at the bottom of the
> labels. Later ones had, in tiny print on the front, "Mercury Records
> Corporation, 35 E. Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60601." The series lasted until
> around 1968 or '69, at which point American pressings and packages ended and
> European Philips imports became the norm.
>
>  The number of titles released on this domestic Philips label was a tiny
> fraction of the European catalogue, and in Chicago at any rate I never saw
> imported Philips LPs for sale except in tiny numbers during that time. I also
> had/have the feeling that the entire European Philips catalogue was never
> subsequently imported to the USA, but have no evidence.
>
>  As for reissues on domestic Philips of titles that had previously been in
> the Epic catalogue: I remember few, if any. I do believe that the van
> Beinum/Concertgebouw Orchestra recording of Handel's Water Music (made in stereo) was
> reissued on the budget-priced World Series label. That might be about it. Part
> of this was that Columbia introduced the Epic label in 1953 as a way to issue
> Philips recordings in the USA, plus some Columbia product. By the time stereo
> was introduced in 1957, there had been hundreds of mono classical Epic LPs. By
> 1961, with stereo, there were many more. They gradually disappeared from the
> catalogue.
>
>  As others pointed out last month, some Philips classical music recordings
> were issued on World Series. That was used for Philips. As I recall, all but a
> few titles on Wing came from the Mercury catalogue.
>
>  A final word: Tom has written about Mercury pressings from different
> periods. I remember the first American Philips LPs and still have two; they were
> excellent pressings, just as good as Mercury's at the time. As the 1960s went on
> the quality of pressings declined until, by 1968 or so, it was very inferior.
> The introduction of the superb imported pressings was like a revelation.
>
>  Don Tait
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************
> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &amp;
> Finance.
>      (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> The limited number of Philips albums done "Mercury style" that Roger mentions were pressed for USA
> at the same RCA plant as the rest of the Living Presence. I believe 2-track masters were sent to
> Holland to master for European pressing, although the case could be that a laquer was sent to 
> Europe
> and plant parts were made from that. After maybe 1964 or 1965, I think Philips ended that
> arrangement with RCA and moved all Mercury pressing to Mercury plants. But, they improved the
> quality at the Richmond plant so later Living Presence pressings are usually just fine. In fact if
> you compare a late 60's re-press of the early stereo Mercury jazz to an original press, the later
> press usually sounds much better. Exception is the Wing jazz reissues of the early 70's, which 
> seem
> to be pressed on trash can lids in some cases. The Wing cheapo-repackages of the classical catalog
> are from earlier on, the early 60's and then batches throughout the 60's. Not worth buying, by the
> way. If it says Wing and Mercury, collectors know to avoid. Also worth avoiding are the late 60's
> "heritage" series of mono reissues with phoney stereo (echo) added in. Those were done at 
> Mercury's
> own mastering facility. I'm not necessarily objecting to the cutting skill on those, mainly the
> phoney stereo and fitting 30 minutes per side on noisy vinyl.
>
> The Philips I'm talking about is not the few "Mercury style" records, and also not the few jazz
> albums that were issued here right after the acquisition of Mercury (Woody Herman, about whose
> marketability Irving Green had some doubts, was assigned to the Philips label and ended up selling
> pretty well and setting himself up for a good run for the rest of the 60's, Dizzy Gillespie also
> made albums under the Philips label, but otherwise it was mostly US issues of European jazz 
> albums).
>
> What I'm talking about are the Philips label albums of European orchestras and what sound like
> European recordings but packaged in the heavy Mercury-style/US-style cardboard sleeves, not the
> thinner heavy-paper sleeves typical in Europe at that time. The records also look and feel like
> Richmond Mercury pressings so I'm guessing they were made there. What I was wondering is if 
> Philips
> issued its whole catalog in parallel here during that period or just selected releases aimed at US
> consumers. By the mid or late 70's, if I went into a record store to buy a Philips record, it 
> would
> be the familiar maroon-stripe albums made in Europe and imported here, or at least sleeved into a
> European-style sleeve. However, even at that time, Philips classical had a completely separate and
> mostly autonomous US division.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Roger and Allison Kulp" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Philips U.S. releases in the 60's
>
>
>> Tom,David,et al,
>>
>> I have never seen a US budget Mercury reissue of a Philips Lp.I'm not saying they don't
>> exist,but,I have never seen one.Their buget label was "Wing",that put out inferior reissues of
>> mono Living Presences.There are the Mercury-pressed Philips of Willem Mengelberg,which I think 
>> are
>> grossly underrated.Tom,you are well aware of the Svastiaslv Richters,on Philips,that your mom
>> produced,in like 1963,and '64.
>>
>> Some of these deep groove US PhilipsLps,on a black glossy label,are as good as Living
>> Presences,IMHO.These would be the pressings from roughly 1963-67, by '68,they were beginning to 
>> go
>> downhill,as were Mercurys themselves.Philips began to export records to the US,around late 
>> 1969,or
>> early 1970,perhaps Don,or someone else could clarify this date.Both British and Dutch pressings
>> were imported.
>>
>> Philips did,indeed,export pressings,from Holland,to other countries before this.I just learned
>> this last year,when I bought such a record,from somebody in Mexico .(eBay of course.)This is one
>> of those 1956 Clara Haskil Mozart Jubilee Lps.The pressing is a post-minigroove maroon label 
>> Dutch
>> pressing from the early 60s.(No photo of record in the listing,just the cover.) I cannot 
>> recall,if
>> it says "Made in Holland" on the label,it may not.The cover is a copy of the Dutch one,except it
>> looks like it was printed in The US.Heavy,laminated cardboard,like an early 60s Merc.On the back
>> cover,is a round orange sticker,slightly smaller than a quarter,that says imported from 
>> Holland,in
>> Spanish.
>>
>>
>>                                  Roger
>>
>> David Lennick <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Philips came into the picture when US Columbia lost
>> its arrangement with
>> English Columbia, which began exporting its product to the US as Angel (around
>> 1953). There were no imported Philips pressings sold over here in the 50s
>> except odd items like musicals and revues (Joyce Grenfell etc). Epic probably
>> relied a lot more on Philips than Columbia, being a new label with not much
>> homegrown classical product except Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra, but all
>> Beecham's recordings appeared on Columbia (that was probably because of a
>> contract with Beecham). As well, all US Columbia product that was issued in
>> Europe came out on Philips.
>>
>> As for recycling the 50s Philips recordings once Philips owned Mercury, I
>> recall some domestic pressings and budget reissues, but I'd say (without being
>> certain) that the full price stuff came in as imports, as did Deutsche
>> Grammophon titles in the 60s (there was a period when those were imported by
>> MGM and packaged on this side).
>>
>> Partial answer, anyway. One way to answer whether Columbia and Epic held onto
>> old titles is to check in 60s Schwanns.
>>
>> dl
>>
>> Tom Fine wrote:
>>> I'm hoping there is a student of Philips history here.
>>>
>>> As I understand it, before Philips bought Mercury, they had a U.S.
>>> distribution deal with Epic (CBS). I've seen Epic tapes and LPs of
>>> Concertgabouw (sp?) and I Musici and perhaps others. After Philips
>>> bought Mercury, by the mid-60's, they had a bunch of their classical
>>> records on sale here, I believe manufacturered here and sleeves like
>>> Mercury records (not thin paper like European Philips records from the
>>> 60's).
>>>
>>> So here are my questions:
>>>
>>> 1. Was some or all of the material originally out on Epic reissued on US
>>> Philips?
>>> 2. Was the entire European classical catalog issued here by the mid-60's?
>>> 3. Were the LPs indeed manufactured in the US or just sleeved here?
>>> 4. Were new masters cut or were European manufacturing parts sent here?
>>>
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>>
> 

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