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ARSCLIST  September 2008

ARSCLIST September 2008

Subject:

Re: Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's

From:

Dave Lewis <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:20:28 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (208 lines)

No argument here. I have a Biltmore of "Japanese Sandman" which I
treasure as
(a) the likelihood of my finding an original of that side is remote and
(b) I
love freaking out friends with being able to play such a weird record
from 78;
there's something about that you cannot get from playing a CD or LP
reissue,
even though the music is still weird in all formats.


David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
Assistant Editor, Classical
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:50 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's

Thanks Dick. I would guess these Bix sets are dubs. Granted, we have 20
years' march of technology progress at play here, but there is no
comparison, sound-wise, to the restorations on the Mosaic set of Bix,
Tram and Big Tea. Listmember Doug Pomeroy made some or all of those
disk-to-digital transfers. The sound quality is so supreior, much more
life-like, on the Mosaic set, that I'd say all these 78's are good for
is Victrola fodder -- something to play on the old Victrola to show
"them yung-uns" how their great-grandparents listened to music.

-- Tom Fine

PS -- what's the best restoration out there these days for the Bix
Gennett horn-recorded sides?

PPS -- speaking of horns, is there modern DAW software that does what
Soundstream did with the Caruso recordings, attempts to mitigate the
effects of a horn-recording system?

PPPS -- I just recently read an article about the latest
digital-re-creation of a famous piano record, the new Art Tatum at the
Shrine album. Apparently, the group that came up with that software is
now adapting it for other instruments and thing they are a handful of
years away from being able re-create the human voice! I have not heard
the Tatum album or the early Glenn Gould album, but they have both
gotten generally good reviews. The thrust of this article was, there may
soon come a time when many different old low-fidelity recordings can be
re-created in a near facsimile of the original playing in a modern
high-fidelity setting. I remain skeptical but I will also say that
people who know piano very well have said and written very good things
about the Gould and Tatum albums, so this group seems to have nailed how
to channel the ghost of a long-gone piano performance. It's interesting
to think about the implications for archives if this technology becomes
common and low-cost. There may be times where careful restoration and
storage is far more expensive than digital re-creation of the material
from a worn-out source.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Spottswood" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's


> Most Columbia pre-WW2 jazz reissues derive from original metal parts,
and
> post-war pressings are always dubs. I suspect that the post-war
popularity
> of record changers prompted new pressings with lead-in and "improved "
> lead-out grooves that activated changer mechanisms more aggressively.
> Sometimes you can spot altered lead -out grooves on pressings from
> original metals. The 1937 Bessie Smith memorial album and four 1933
> Goodman titles reissued on the special BENNY GOODMAN label (3167-D,
> 3168-D) were all dubbed. They also marked the end of Columbia's 1-D
> series, created in 1923.
>
> Victor reissued a lot of 1920s jazz on Bluebird from the mid-30s
onward,
> from both original and dubbed metals. Album reissue setsof JR Morton,
> McKinney's Cotton Pickers etc. appeared in both Canada and the US.
> Canadian sets use original parts; US equivalents are dubbed.
>
> Victor kept most of its Carter Family and Jimmie Rodgers titles
available
> in the Bluebird and Montgomery Ward catalogs through the 1930s, The
first
> Bluebird B-5000 series reissues were dubbed, just about everything
else
> used original parts.
>
> Dick
>
>
>
>
>
> Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
<[log in to unmask]>
> 09/10/2008 05:42 AM
> Please respond to
> Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To
> [log in to unmask]
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [ARSCLIST] Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Wheeler has a book in progress on this isssue-er-reissue
situation.
>
> Steve Smolian
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lennick" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's
>
>
>> Biltmore, not Biltmor..Biltmor was a Canadian label around 1950.
Funny
>> about dropping the final E on common names..there was a label up here
>> called Yorkshir as well. We drop Es and add Us.
>>
>> Biltmore, Temple, Sentry (and a few others) all put out dubs of rare
> jazz
>> 78s. Some of them weren't too atrocious. Some were..but how else were
> you
>> going to say you owned a copy of Zulu's Ball?
>>
>> dl
>>
>> David Lennick wrote:
>>> Sweet Sue was a dub, and there are two versions..the complete
original
>>> (4:25 or so) and one with the "florid introduction" removed. We had
the
>
>>> set with the complete version but the liner notes were unchanged, so
> for
>>> years I wondered how much longer the original could have been! I
didn't
>
>>> find the shorter version till just a few years ago.
>>>
>>> And the second album is definitely all dubs, but all the Columbia
> reissue
>>> albums were dubs by this time, like Crosby Classics Volume II. In
fact
>>> Columbia was dubbing older European classical masters as well c.
1950.
>>>
>>> Did Boris Rose have anything to do with Biltmor? I've seen some
> lacquers
>>> where the labels were the blank sides of old Biltmor labels.
>>>
>>> dl
>>>
>>> David Weiner wrote:
>>>> Some of the Columbia reissues - especially the first album, are
> mostly
>>>> master pressings. I think the later album is all dubs.
>>>>
>>>> The Biltmores are definitely all bootleg dubs.
>>>>
>>>> Dave W.
>>>> ----------------------
>>>>
>>>> Hi All:
>>>>
>>>> I am interested in details about two Bix Beiderbecke reissue 78's.
>>>>
>>>> First of all, the albums put out by Columbia in the late 40's,
> reissues
>>>> of
>>>> Okeh records -- were those made from old metal parts or are they
dubs
> of
>>>> old records?
>>>>
>>>> Second, what's the story on the 78's put out on the Biltmore label?
>>>> These
>>>> seem to be either licensed reissues or bootlegs of old Gennett and
>>>> Victor records, of the Wolverines
>>>> and the Whiteman band.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any answers!
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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