Michael,
Many big thanks. I did read an earlier posting from that went into the
situation about how soviet recordings were marketed, but I supposed I
missed the relevant section and only saw the Melodiya/MK stuff which I
DO understand (or think I understand). Your extensive elaboration
pretty much tells me all I could hope to know about the disc. I have no
doubt at this point that it is the British 1947, 78rpm recording that
Don Cox wrote about:
The 1947 recording was made on 78s, and judging from the Testament
transfer had poor sound for its period. This CD was made 15 years ago,
and possibly a new transfer from the original parts (if they survive)
might improve on it slightly, but I doubt if there is much more to
extract.
So I would expect a Russian copy, whether made from 78s or from LP,
to be in very poor sound.
Apologies if my requests were unnecessarily redundant, but I'm glad to have all the information I can use in one place now and again thank you, Marcia, Don (and other helpful listers).
Peter Hirsch
Michael Biel wrote:
> It seems like the ARSCList took a Christmas vacation!! So lets start
> up again.
>
> Punto wrote:
>> I do want to follow up on this since I initiated the discussion by
>> trying to decipher and decode a record in hand. From the start, I was
>> able to transliterate enough to be certain that Medtner was the
>> composer and soloist on the disc and I had tracked down the Testament
>> CD of the Medtner/Philharmonia/Dobrowen recording. I could not read
>> enough of the rest of the text to conclude that this was definitely
>> the 1947 Mahrajah of Mysore sponsored recording and not some other
>> one since the recording company and all other information beyond
>> composer, work and performer, was undecipherable to me. I did hear
>> from Marcia Segal who very helpfully deciphered a scan I sent them
>
> Several days ago I had already given the translations of the
> trademarks on the label, but I'll go into more detail to explain a few
> of the words and then go into the history of the factory
> .
> If the rest of you want to follow along, here is a scan from the web
> of this label format of Peter's record --
>
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/vsg/2.htm
>
>
> The black lettering at the top is translated to Ministry of Culture
> USSR. It reads Menesterstvo Kulturi SSSR (cyrillic lettering looking
> like CCCP is really SSSR which translates in English as USSR.)
>
> The trademark lettering is BCG but would be pronounced VSG. What
> looks like a B is the cyrillic V. What looks like a C is the cyrillic
> S. This writing is in script, so the final letter looks to us like a T
> but it is a script G. (Very few dictionaries show the script alphabet
> chart -- you have to find a children's schoolbook or schoolroom wall
> chart which is what I have found to guide me. Another real challenge
> is the script T which looks like an M !!!!! Script lettering on album
> covers, posters, advertisements, trademarks, etc. are a real challenge
> even if you think you can read printed cyrillic.) These initials
> stand for what is in the next line in the black banner.
>
> The words in the banner are Vsyesayuznaya Studya Gramzapisi This
> translates into All-Union Studio Phonorecords. All-union means it
> is for the entire Soviet Union rather than one region or republic.
> The middle word is NOT student which includes the letter n in the
> Russian word just like in the English word. (There are other words
> close to these in the dictionary that start studye . . . that mean
> cold, refrigerate, brawn, or jelly depending on what other letters
> follow to make up the word.) Gram is the part of the trademark word
> Gramophone which means writing (the whole word means writing of sound)
> and gram also has some forms like that in Russian as well, but it is
> used here much like it is used in the Russian word "gramplastinki"
> which means "gramophone plate" or disc record. Zapisi means
> document, record, inscription. Gramzapisi is really a coined word,
> just like Gramophone.
> The curved line at the bottom is Dolgoigrayushaya 33 1/3 which means
> Long Playing 33 1/3. At the beginning some LPs were at 78.
>
>
> VSG was the original name of the factory that was built inside the
> city limits of Moscow in the early 60s, and later in the Melodiya days
> became noted on the labels in Russian as the Moscow Experimental
> Factory Gramzapis. When the USSR was broken up, so was Melodiya. In
> Moscow it was a very complicated situation that was only
> understandable once the President of Melodiya explained it to me.
> This record factory became corporately independent and used the trade
> name Gramzapis. There are some records in the 1990s with this
> trademark. The executive office building is the only part of the
> company which legally retained the use of the trademark Melodiya, and
> was able to get financing as a joint venture with German BMG
> Bertlesman. The recording studio right next door to the executive
> office building was supposed to be part of that company, but the
> workers in that building took it over and made their own joint venture
> with another company and became known as Russian Disc. I have a
> couple of examples of records with a Russian Disc label but a Melodiya
> trademark on the sleeve, and the President explained that these
> probably left the factory at the time when the eventual outcome of the
> split was uncertain. But he explained unhappily that they are two
> separate companies. Here are a few of the many formats of Russian
> Disc records.
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/russian_disc/1.htm
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/russian_disc/9.htm
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/Moscow/russian_disc/5.htm
>
>
> BUT all of the separate companies were still tied together because of
> the manufacturing facilities. ALL raw vinyl for every plant in the
> entire country came from the Aprelvka factory which is about 30 miles
> SW of Moscow. Their joint-venture name was Aprelvka Sound, and you
> will see records from the 90s with that trademark. ALL the metal
> parts for masters and stampers for the entire country were made in
> Moscow, possibly in the recording studio. So there had to be SOME
> cooperation among all of the parts of the former Melodiya. The
> ownership of the masters, the metal parts, etc, were major contractual
> problems because if a factory had metal parts they would use them even
> if the Moscow office building company thought they had exclusive
> rights to them. And the master tapes were next door in the Russian
> Disc recording studio, and they used them even thought the office
> building company thought it improper. It is all very confusing.
>
>
> The Riga plant was bought by one of the musicians of the rock group
> Time Machine and became known as RiTonis/Sintez.
>
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/RIGA/26.htm
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/RIGA/20.htm
>
> Leningrad became a major source of Russian Beatles records with the
> trademark AnTrop (which can't be read properly by non-Russians, but
> stands for Andrey Tropillo, a major rock manager),
>
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/NO%20LABEL/4.htm
>
> Leningrad pressed other labels like Gala, and SNC for rock musician
> Stas Namin.
>
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/PETERBOURG/gala/1.htm
> http://www.collectable-records.ru/labels/RUSSIA/PETERBOURG/snc/1.htm
>
> The Tiblisi plant became the source of pirated rock LPs with no
> visible trademark.
>
> The VSG plant, which by then was known as the Moscow Experimental
> Factory Gramzapis, was in the midst of being converted to all-CD
> manufacturing before the split and was able to start pressing CDs with
> the Melodiya trademark. Those discs have a blue swirl on the label.
> When the split-off came, the factory took the trademark Gramzapis, and
> you will find CDs with that trademark. Within a year the Russian
> Mafia infiltrated that factory. I interviewed the man who was the
> manager of the plant during the LP era and oversaw the conversion to
> CDs. When I told him I had bought a Rolling Stones CD in Kentucky
> with a Melodiya trademark, he became visibly sad. He told me he tried
> to keep the factory honest, but Andrey Tropillo came to him with a
> forged license contract and had the CDs pressed. Then when he
> realized that there was no way to fight the mafia, he and his
> assistant quit, and the mafia took over the plant. At that point in
> 1995 the two of them were running a small company which made childrens
> cassettes. It was a VERY SMALL company. Their entire manufacturing
> plant was a four-well cassette duplicator in the room next to his
> office. He had to be VERY small to not interest the mafia. There
> still was a factory retail store in Gramzapis in 1995, and when the
> counter girls found out I was an American collector they gave me a
> copy of each LP they still had in stock which was about ten records.
> I also bought a few CDs. Alexander would not let me take any pictures
> there -- "It is not safe, Michael. Very criminal place." I got
> videotape of the factory only when were were across a very wide and
> busy street. All the time he was worried and fidgeting and looking
> all around and making us both look very suspicious!!! (We had almost
> been gunned down leaving another record company when photographing
> near a car with some suspicious characters, so he was right to be
> nervous.)
> If you will send me the label scans I can explain the other numbers
> and letters on the label for the recording itself.
> Mike Biel [log in to unmask] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>
> Punto wrote:
>> I do want to follow up on this since I initiated the discussion by
>> trying to decipher and decode a record in hand. From the start, I was
>> able to transliterate enough to be certain that Medtner was the
>> composer and soloist on the disc and I had tracked down the Testament
>> CD of the Medtner/Philharmonia/Dobrowen recording. I could not read
>> enough of the rest of the text to conclude that this was definitely
>> the 1947 Mahrajah of Mysore sponsored recording and not some other
>> one since the recording company and all other information beyond
>> composer, work and performer, was undecipherable to me. I did hear
>> from Marcia Segal who very helpfully deciphered a scan I sent them
>> and I now know that it is just a dismally poor pressing of the
>> Philharmonia Abbey Road LP. I have not asked for permission to quote,
>> so I hope she won't mind my sharing a portion of the correspondence
>> in hope that someone else is familiar with the issuing label and
>> might have more information on it. Mike Biel and Steve Smolian have
>> ventured a fair amount on clarification on the Melodiya/MK situation,
>> but this does not appear have anything to do with them, but rather
>> something close to what is below.
>>
>>> Very rough transliteration/phonetic rendering, enough that you may
>>> be able to search via Google:
>>>
>>> From top to bottom:
>>>
>>> 1) The line at the top ending with CCCP
>>>
>>> Ministyerstvo Cultyur CCCP (possibly)
>>> Cultural Ministry of the Soviet Union
>>>
>> *>2) BCG and in the black ribbon beneaeth it
>>>
>>> Vsyesoyuznaya Studiya Gramzapisi *(possibly)
>>> the second word means "study"
>>
> No it doesn't. It means "Studio." You are confused because of the
> closeness of this word to styudent
>> Anyone have more information or want a crack at the scan that I have
>> made?
>>
>> Thanks to Marcia and anyone with supplemental info.
>>
>> Peter Hirsch
>>
>>
>
>
>
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