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ARSCLIST  June 2009

ARSCLIST June 2009

Subject:

Re: Virgin Sacrifice

From:

Jack Palmer <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:59:32 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (131 lines)

Tom,
    I certainly qualify as an old man.  I'm even older than Mike!  But even 
if I was willing to download the music only I could not obtain the artist 
and the music I want.  It is only available from old 78s.  Most of it has 
never been released on CD or even LP.  So where does that leave me?  Either 
look for the old records or forget the music I want to hear?  So my choice 
is looking for the records.  And I enjoy it.  I have met so many interesting 
people and traveled across the entire US looking for the music.  I can't 
travel anymore due to health problems but I still check out several mail 
order lists and on line listings.  I feel I am doubly blessed.  I get to 
hear the music and I also have the original artifact that the music was 
issued on.  You have to be a record collector (of any age) to know what it 
is like.   Jack

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Virgin Sacrifice


> Hi Mike:
>
> No offense, but your attitude about downloads shows your age. There are 
> definitely a few "kids" who want a houseful of dusty objects, but I 
> respect just as much the person who is collecting the MUSIC, not the 
> THING, in which case an iPod full of downloads is more MUSIC in a more 
> convenient place than ever existed before. Now if only that music were in 
> full CD quality or better instead of lossy-compressed ...
>
> Since we can't take either one with us, it might be more merciful on those 
> we leave behind to leave a single computer drive and iPod vs. a house of 
> moldy things to be disposed of. On the other hand, if it's a house full of 
> minty Black Pattys, Shaded Dogs and McIntosh amplifiers, perhaps the 
> survivors will forgive the clutter as the cash rolls in from selling it! 
> But this isn't usually the case.  I think there are guys on this list who 
> appraise giant piles of shellac and vinyl all the time and will report how 
> worthless many acres of this stuff is, so mainly it's a burden on those 
> left behind unless they share the love of the stuff or own a carting 
> business.
>
> As for used bookstores, except for my strange inclination to collect first 
> edition hardcovers of certain mainstream books about politics and 
> journalism, I've had much better luck and saved tons of money using 
> AbeBooks. So once again, the Internet wins. Aside from books about music 
> and the record business, I've stopped buying altogether due to lack of 
> space. Library trumps wallet nowadays.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Biel" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Virgin Sacrifice
>
>
> From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Maybe it's an age thing, but I can't see any reason for physical stores
>> for music since Amazon took off. I haven't bought a book or CD from a
>> physical store in probably a decade now.
>
> To a certain extent that is similar to me, especially when I am home in
> Kentucky, far, far away from any record stores with just a small
> non-discount bookstore in town.  Constantly when something is discussed
> in these forums or I otherwise hear about something available, I check
> on Amazon and a couple of other places and ZIP, I click and buy.  The
> problem is not being able to combine shipping in the marketplace area,
> which raises the price considerably when buying several things that the
> same vendor offers.
>
> But that being said, when visiting Leah in NYC we always try to drop
> into Acadamy Records, Book-Off, Strand Books, and a neat remainder book
> place we found in the Village, and we usually leave these places with
> too many things to carry, so I usually drive there.  Then there are the
> special events like the semi- and annual sales at places like the
> ARChive of Contemporary Music that Leah and I hit this afternoon.  We
> crawled out with almost 100 one dollar LPs, almost 50 two dollar
> LaserDiscs, and some 50 cent 78s including two Chaillapin Opera Discs,
> Jazz at the Philharmonic Vol 4 on Disc album 504, Artie Shaw plays Cole
> Porter on Musicraft album S2, King Cole Trio Capitol album B8 with an
> extra disc, and Tetrazzini on the vinyl Heritage Series 15-0001, and
> some other stuff including two Hoffnung books.  (The sale continues thru
> Sunday, so if you're in the NYC area you might want to check it out
> http://www.arcmusic.org  )  And then there's the Jazz Record Bash on Fri
> and Sat, and everybody will be there.  And then there's the Antique
> Phonograph and Record shop in South Jersey we went to last Saturday
> while in the Phila area and got a couple dozen 78s there.
>
> There is nothing like being able to handle and inspect the records,
> including the ones you don't buy, which can't be done on the internet
> nor in mail auctions.  While 78 collectors have been using mail auctions
> since the 1930s, most of these collectors have also gone thru tens of
> thousands of records in stores, so they get to know what the details are
> in the actual records.  I know I have looked at more than a million
> records over the years. This is an important learning experience for
> collectors.  When the rock collectors started having access to mail
> auctions in the late 70s in Goldmine and other magazines like it, I
> noticed that the majority of rock collectors had never really gone thru
> piles of thousands of records, and usually knew nothing about the
> records themselves.  Reading the articles in these rock collector
> magazines, looking at what they mistakenly called "discographies", and
> the auction lists themselves, showed how ignorant these rock collectors
> were, even the "experts".  All too often they had never looked at any
> records that were not already in their collection.  They didn't know
> labels, pressing plant styles, matrix numbers, etc.  Obvious conterfeits
> were snapped up like the real things by them if they ventured out to a
> record show.
>
>
>> And downloads trump even that because not only are they convenient,
>> they are near-instant gratification.  Now if only full 44.1/16-bit
>> downloads would go down to 99 cents or less per song and be
>> commonplace, we'd finally be at a reasonable "new paradigm."
>
> So if these "collectors" now stick to just downloading things, that
> might leave the real artifacts for us real collectors. I'm not
> interested in paying for vapor, which is all a download is.  We did use
> some free streams as source for some of the music in Leah's documentary
> because most of the music was added while I was in New York and my
> records were in Kentucky.  I do buy plenty of CD reissues of 78s, so I
> am not a purist who insists on having the 78 even if it is impossibly
> rare.  But if the reissue is on a CD or a download, I will go for the
> CD.  You are not a record collector if you go for the download.  (In
> Leah's documentary, Kurt Nauck discusses the difference between music
> lovers who just want to listen to the music, and record collectors who
> want the record and also might listen to the record.)
>
> Mike Biel   [log in to unmask]
> 

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