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PCCTG1  July 2009

PCCTG1 July 2009

Subject:

Re: Question: Headings: non Latin in qualifiers and for Latinized forms

From:

"Fletcher, Peter" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Program for Cooperative Cataloging <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:46:44 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (175 lines)

I don't think anything is really completely off topic, within reason. And, within reason, certain topics perhaps might be mentioned in our report for folks to think about for the future.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Avetyan, Nora
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCTG1] Question: Headings: non Latin in qualifiers and for Latinized forms

For Persian cataloging what you said Diana, "romanization includes short vowels, 
but short vowels are not included in the non-Latin script. And dates and 
other qualifiers are left off because of technical difficulties with 
keying multidirectional data" is absolutely true. In the Authority records we omit the dates for the original script cross references too. (we really need to create records in original scripts with limited transliterations for filing purposes [sorry this is off topic]).
Nora

-----Original Message-----
From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of D. Brooking
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PCCTG1] Question: Headings: non Latin in qualifiers and for Latinized forms

CJK and HAPY folks have years of experience with non-Latin. As a Cyrillic 
person, I am a newbie. The LC White Paper portrays the HAPY group 
(right-to-left scripts) as more problematic, just because their bib 
headings tend to vary more. I don't know if we can solve those issues or 
not, but it might be worth looking into.

For example, Arabic... I have spoken with some Arabic catalogers that I 
know, and they say that it is true they follow standard transliteration, 
but only up to a point. For instance, romanization includes short vowels, 
but short vowels are not included in the non-Latin script. And dates and 
other qualifiers are left off because of technical difficulties with 
keying multidirectional data. So in practice they aren't following the CEG 
appendix to the letter.

(Do Arabic catalogers on our group agree with what I was told?)




************
Diana Brooking             (206) 685-0389
Cataloging Librarian       (206) 685-8782 fax
Suzzallo Library           [log in to unmask]
University of Washington
Box 352900
Seattle WA  98195-2900

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Fletcher, Peter wrote:

> Diana, good point about making suggestions/guidelines for HAPY, which of 
> course the language specialists on our task force can help to add to the 
> special section if we all (or a majority) agree to go in that direction. 
> Of course, such special guidelines would have to be "standard" in their 
> own way, and I am not sure how you might establish such standards that 
> allow considerable variation.  I appears, however, that at least 
> Arabic--according to the CEG appendix--are not allowing the freedom to 
> provide non-Latin forms based on forms that don't have a one-to-one 
> correlation with the established form (i.e., are not established 
> according the ALC-LC transliteration tables).
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Program for Cooperative Cataloging [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of D. Brooking
> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:08 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PCCTG1] Question: Headings: non Latin in qualifiers and for Latinized forms
>
> I am in favor of #1.
>
> We could try getting closer to #2 by making some kind of suggestions that
> would help non-Latin headings for HAPY be more consistent. But I don't
> know enough about the area to suggest specifics. (See LC's White Paper on
> Non-Latin in Authority Records for their description of HAPY practice for
> bib headings.)
>
> I am not in favor of #3. We do not yet even have rules for how to add
> non-Latin references to authority records. PCC practice does not yet
> require non-Latin references in authority records. We just aren't ready
> for #3.
>
>
>
> ************
> Diana Brooking             (206) 685-0389
> Cataloging Librarian       (206) 685-8782 fax
> Suzzallo Library           [log in to unmask]
> University of Washington
> Box 352900
> Seattle WA  98195-2900
>
> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Fletcher, Peter wrote:
>
>>
>> All, this of course,  is one of our most difficult issues to deal with. To quote our document thus far:
>>
>>  
>>
>> for headings:
>>
>>  
>>
>> ?For subjects and headings fields, non-Latin equivalents are given only for headings and parts of headings that have received standard1
>> Romanization. Do not supply non-Latin data for cataloger supplied qualifiers, or headings and parts of headings established in a
>> conventional, Latin-style. (See section 3 for exceptions to this rule)?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Note my addition in bold/parenthesis. This represents essentially the status quo, since PCC Hebraica catalogers are currently providing
>> parallel fiends in bib records for non-standard forms. (remember this document is aimed at PCC catalogers)
>>
>>  
>>
>> The options are:
>>
>> 1.    Status quo (i.e., allowing exceptions to some languages, e.g., Hebrew)
>>
>> 2.    Eliminate any exceptions (i.e., reign in those renegades and have them conform! J)
>>
>> 3.    Recommend adding parallel fields for non-Latin script only to authority records
>>
>> Let?s look at 2: Con: We may create guidelines that eliminate the exceptions, but would they follow them? Would they stop doing what they
>> are used to doing and think is valuable or necessary (depending on local ILS) to the bib record? Pro: more standardized approach to the
>> data and possible better machine manipulation if the headings are based on the standard.
>>
>>  
>>
>> And 3: Con: A similar problem as with 2: would they see the wisdom of this approach and stop adding data to records they consider valuable
>> or even necessary for their local systems? Pro: Definitely more standard for the bib record, since only descriptive date found on the item
>> would be transcribed into the bib record; all variant forms beyond even the standard could be added to the authority record.
>>
>>  
>>
>> And 1, the status quo: Pro: most PCC catalogers would follow our guidelines since that is close to what they are doing and see as valuable
>> or necessary, and it would provide a kind of standard approach for a large part of the bib record that would at least be documented in the
>> guidelines. Con: bib records will have some non-standard non-Latin data in their headings fields.
>>
>>  
>>
>> If you could all respond soon I would appreciate it, since I have to have a preliminary report in within the few weeks. I am asking Joan
>> Schuitema if our deadline could be pushed to mid-August. I think this is reasonable, since our final report isn?t even due until Dec., but
>> we do have to  have time for feedback from our preliminary report that will obviously steer the direction of our final report.
>>
>>  
>>
>> best, Peter
>>
>>  
>>
>> Peter Fletcher
>>
>> Cyrillic Catalog Librarian and Metadata Specialist
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Office: (310) 206-3927
>>
>> Fax: (310) 794-9357
>>
>> UCLA Cataloging & Metadata Center
>>
>> 11020 Kinross Avenue
>>
>> Box 957230
>>
>> Los Angeles, CA 90095-7230
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>

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