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ARSCLIST  October 2009

ARSCLIST October 2009

Subject:

Re: 16 2/3 Prestige

From:

Roger Kulp <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 4 Oct 2009 14:56:10 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (149 lines)

I don't think anybody else did them,at least in the US.I do think I saw one or two from Japan once.I also don't think the series was around long enough for anybody other than Van Gelder to work on it.

                                            Roger

--- On Sun, 10/4/09, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16 2/3 Prestige
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 11:42 AM

Bonjour Michel:

Do you recall, from your discography work, if any other jazz labels did these slow-speed records? Any idea why Prestige? Also, did anyone except Van Gelder master these things? I have to dig out that old article, when I get a chance, but as I recall it, Prestige was marketing these records as a discounted music medium (ie twice the tunes for the same price as an LP), not as a specialized thing for a specialized jukebox.

Did this ever catch on with spoken-word labels? It seems that would be the natural market for this medium -- two hours on one 12" record, the ability to fit a whole play or short book into a 2-LP gatefold instead of a box. Also reissues of mono opera recordings?

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel RUPPLI" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 16 2/3 Prestige


Remember that my Prestige discography (Greenwood Press - 1980) listed
the Prestige 16 2/3 LPs series, including:
3 Miles DAVIS (contents  identical to Albums PRLP 7109 + PRLP7150)
5 George Walington/Phhil Woods (same contents aa New Jazz albums NJLP
8207 + NJLP 8304)
No info available on 7 and 8 when I researched that series in early 70s.
Michel Ruppli
-------
Le 3 oct. 09 à 21:22, Michael Biel a écrit :

> 
> Tom Fine wrote:
>> I read an article about 16 2/3 RPM LPs, I think in an old High  Fidelity or HiFi Review. It was a short fad, right? I think  Prestige and some other jazz labels reissued very old mono titles  in discounted double-length records. If I recall the article  correctly, Rudy Van Gelder was the guy who cut those records, and  he talked about how it was somewhat of a challenge but do-able.  The reviewer agreed that old mono jazz could successfully be  reissued in that medium.
>> 
>> Anyone know how long that fad lasted and how many records were  issued in that format?
>> 
>> -- Tom Fine
>> 
> I hesitate to change the subject line because apparently my  previous shorter answer to this was not seen in another subject  head.  In 1958 Vox issued 8 and Prestige issued 6 (?) 12-inch 16  2/3 XLPs that were all mastered by Rudy Van Gelder.  I have three  of the Vox, and I have never seen any others  anywhere except these  three in the warehouse of the record distributor where I worked in  1966 and gave them to me as unsalable.  "The Long Player" and "Jazz  and Pops" catalogs listed them in a special section for about a  year, and I suppose this means that Sam Goody's was trying to sell  them!  If I had more time I'd check when they entered and left the  catalog, but this is wha16t 1was there in the 2nd half of 1958.
> Prestige
> 1   Concorde -- Modern Jazz Quar, Milt Jackson Trio
> 2   Let's Get Away From It All -- Billy Taylor 4   Three Trombones  -- Jay Jay Johnson, Kai Winding, Bennie Green
> 5   Modern Jazz Survey -- NY Jazz
> 6   Modern Jazz Survey -- Baritones & French Horns
> 8   Miles Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants
> I have no idea what happened to 3 or 7.  5 & 6 didn't appear until  the Oct 58 catalog.
> 
> Vox
> VXL-1  Tchaikovsky  Piano Con 1, Romeo & Julie, Sym 6
> VXL-2  Beethoven  Emperor and D Maj Violin Cons, Corioian & Leonore  Overs
> VXL-3  L'Arfesienne 1&2, Polovetsian, Scheherazade, Nutcracker S.
> VXL-4  Geo Feyer -- Round the World, Round the Clock
> VXL-5  Syms: Beethoven 5, Dvorak 5, Prokofiev 1, Schubert 8
> VXL-6  Piano Cons: Grieg, Liszt 1, Rach 2, Schumann
> VXL-7  Dance  Party -- Barreto, Monese, Sandauer
> VXL-8  Violin Cons: Tsch, Paganini 1,  Mendelssohn, Bruch 1
> 
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Nelson"  <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>> 
>> 
>> The Seebug juke box company made a "library" unit that played  12"  lps. The unit was designed to play 33s or 16 2/3 rpm music discs.
>> 16rpm  12" discs were released by Decca records, mostly bacground  music type.
>> dnw
>> 
>> --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 12:49 PM
>>> Hi Larry:
>>> 
>>> That sounds like a cool toy! Wow, that must have been a
>>> 70's thing, the golden age of albums. When you sat down and
>>> listened to an album one side at a time. We're back to the
>>> pre-album days again in popular music, one song at a time.
>>> 
>>> Music servers are slowly becoming a mainstream component.
>>> There will be a day when someone combines something like
>>> that into a genuine jukebox interface and they'll have
>>> themselves a nice niche product. There are already plenty of
>>> virtual jukebox interfaces, but I'm talking about the real
>>> thing, including the neon lighting and the pushbuttons.
>>> 
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry S Miller"  <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 3:30 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Living Presence promo copies
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tom,
>>> Do you know about LP jukeboxes? Not the kind
>>> that plays 7-inch 33-1/3 discs, but the type that plays
>>> full-sized 12-inch LPs. I've encountered only a
>>> couple, one in a long-gone restaurant near the Mizzou campus
>>> called the Agora House. Not only were the enchiladas
>>> good, for, I believe, a quarter, I could hear an entire side
>>> of 'The Doors" or "Surrealistic Pillow." Probably not
>>> the sort of thing you'd want to put your shaded dogs on, but
>>> if you had a Dynaflex re-issue of something, who
>>> cares? By the way, I think it had a Shure cartridge.
>>> 
>>> Larry Miller
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For a long time, I had dreams of a classic 45-singles
>>> jukebox, but then when I started shopping for
>>> a well-restored one, it turned out they mostly sound like
>>> crap due to both mid-grade to low-grade
>>> phono pickups and also the fact that most singles sound
>>> like crap from Play One. So net-net, I
>>> decided that they're great for noisy bars and diners but
>>> not so much for focused listening at home.
>>> I admit still being thrilled when I come upon one that
>>> still works in a bar or diner. The first
>>> thing I do is feed it dollars so I can sample its contents.
>>> Nowadays, if you find it working, it's
>>> usually on its last legs and the records are circa early
>>> 1990's or earlier. No interest in or use
>>> for CD jukeboxes; I remember when those first came out,
>>> higher prices per play and less fun to use.
>>> Plus much less frequent switch-ins of music, at least in
>>> the upstate NY market, so the whole purpose
>>> of a jukebox was being defeated. It went from a
>>> music-discovery machine to an oldies and stale hits
>>> machine.
>>> 
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 



      

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