Steven Smolian wrote:
> Rather than commit more keystrokes refining my comments (I assumed there
> would be some degree of space control, for instance), I'll let the point
> stand.
----- did I inadvertently exceed my allotted space? Sorry if that is so.
Saturation does set in quickly.
bestwishes George
>
> It does require each institution own the appropriate devices and have
> provision to store and protect the equipmnet when not on the playback line.
> Best solution would be to have them in a display environment with proper
> annotation.
>
> Steve
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 6:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Edison, etc., formerly Polk Miller
>
>
> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> >
> > Hello, again,
> >
> > Steven Smolian wrote:
> >
> >> In recent years I have been privately advocating that each sound archive
> >> and
> >> other learning venues present a program called "How Our Ancestors Heard
> >> Recordings."
> >>
> >> It would sequentially play back the same piece of music, "Stars and
> >> Stripes"
> >> or an earlier piece for which recordings exist in all commercial media.
> >>
> >> These would be reproduced through the actual machines for which they
> were
> >> intended rather than microphone recordings from them and would cover
> the
> >> time spectrum then to now.
> >
> > ----- I have gone one further: I have proposed that a linear re-recording
> > of
> > the groove waveform could be sent to a suitable driver or vibrator to
> > drive
> > directly the reproducing stylus when sitting in the soundbox in the
> > machine.
> > You would get all the acoustic of the original machine. That way there
> > would
> > be no wear of the recording, nor of the needle. The only thing you would
> > not
> > get would be the rumble of the machine, nor the sometimes crunchy noises
> > from
> > the spring unwinding inside its can. On the other hand, you would not
> even
> > need to restore the drive train of the machine, certainly halving the cost
> > of
> > restoration.
> >
> > I actually proposed this in 1989 in my "Comment on "International Re-
> > Recording Standards" that I mentioned in my first post.
> >
> > ------ A different but very flawed approach was taken by a group of
> > Finnish
> > researchers and published by the AES in JAES_Vol56_No3_pp115-139 (March
> > 2008). I and a few others got so incensed with the unseriousness of the
> > approach (the aim was admirable, though, and we said so) that we wrote a
> > comment that is available on the AES website, linked to the electronic
> > version of this paper. I would recommend anybody seriously engaged in
> > these
> > matters to obtain a copy. The original paper is not free, but our comment
> > may
> > be read on:
> >
> > http://www.aes.org/journal/online/comment/?ID=14378
> >
> >>
> >> Using microphones to record what is played back on a phonograph,
> >> graphophone, etc., introduces a further group of variables.
> >
> > ----- I do not see how microphones would perform any worse than when
> > capturing live sound.
> >
> >>
> >> Part of the presentation would include playing electrical recordings on
> >> acoustical machines, mono through stereo speakers, etc. to give an
> >> inverse
> >> perspective.
> >>
> >> This is a different process than that to which I was objecting in my
> >> earlier
> >> message. It brings into play the sound of each instrument in a real
> >> acoustical setting which is far truer to the ear of the listener in the
> >> room
> >> than what a microphone can presently create and mimic.
> >
> > ----- I could accept the viewpoint if it were performed in a
> reconstructed
> > drawing room or parlor with an acoustic similar to the acoustic of the
> > time
> > when the record and machine first met. And taking into account the number
> > of
> > people present. I do not see how this would work in an open-space museum
> > environment.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> > George
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 1:47 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Polk Miller
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > Steven Smolian wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> This approach is the shearest nonsense! Horns introduced distortion
> >> >> at
> >> >> the
> >> >> recording end and also at the playback end. This distortion varied
> >> >> from
> >> >> one
> >> >> horn desingn to another.
> >> >
> >> > ----- I am sorry, Steven, but I do think that there is room and even
> a
> >> > need
> >> > for this kind of re-recording. It is a part of sound recording and
> >> > reproduction history. I do not think we can teach our ears to forget,
> >> > but
> >> > we
> >> > can at least be conscious of our ears and try to go back to the times
> >> when
> >> > this type of sound was amazing. Edison is not a good example for the
> >> > variability of the playback end, because he was the only recording
> >> company
> >> > that sold a complete system, i.e. controlled everything. He may have
> >> been
> >> > idiosyncratic, and obviously we also learn about his preconceived
> views
> >> > when
> >> > listening to his products.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> It may sound 'beetter" to the rerecording engineer but is a purely
> >> >> subjective opinion.
> >> >
> >> > ----- I do not think it sounds "better" to anybody, but certainly
> more
> >> > representative of the sound heard in the parlor than a good
> >> interpretative
> >> > transfer that optimises the access to the sound as it was in the
> >> recording
> >> > studio. A preservation transfer sounds horrible, but it is extremely
> >> > useful,
> >> > because it may be used for any purpose.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> It amazes me that so much is made of presumed audio purity based on
> >> >> the
> >> >> dictatorial opinions of a deaf listener.
> >> >
> >> > ----- I do not hope that it is the purity in an absolute sense that
> >> these
> >> > transfers aim for. But it is rather amazing how good these
> "primitive"
> >> > machines were. And the secret is, they were not primitive at all, but
> >> > finely
> >> > honed to the criteria they set.
> >> >
> >> > Bill Storm, formerly of the Belfer Laboratory, which was essentially
> >> > founded
> >> > by Walter Welch, was also a proponent of the audio history approach.
> I
> >> > violently opposed it as a preservation format, you may see my
> >> > discussion
> >> > by
> >> > downloading ARSCJv20n2p156-161 from the ARSC website.
> >> >
> >> > Kind regards,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > George
> >> >
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "John Eberle" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:20 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Polk Miller
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > We are collectors of Edison Phonograph antiquities here at
> Americana
> >> CD
> >> >> > Mastering . In our collection ,
> >> >> > we have Blue Amberol cylinder records of two Polk Miller songs
> >> >> > recorded
> >> >> > in November 1909 for Edison's clientele:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Blue Amberol #2176 "The Laughing Song " and
> >> >> > #2175 " The Bonnie Blue Flag "
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We currently have an mp3 of the Bonnie Blue Flag as played on our
> >> >> Edison
> >> >> > Concert Amberola Model A1 and recorded to Ampex GrandMaster 456
> >> >> > then
> >> >> > transferred to aif file on a Masterlink at 48khz/24 bit resolution
> >> >> > .
> >> >> > This
> >> >> > way you
> >> >> > get to hear the true sound quality of the cylinder as the Edison
> >> >> > recording
> >> >> > staff intended it to be ; and as it was heard and enjoyed by the
> >> >> > thousands
> >> >> > of Edison customers who purchased it 90 years ago !
> >> >> >
> >> > ...........
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.S. from time to time my mails to the list are not "taken". I wonder
> >> > if
> >> > there is some online filtering going on. Just to test the system I
> >> > recently
> >> > repeated my message with some variations more than 20 times over a
> >> > couple
> >> > of
> >> > days, but no luck at all. And the loss is definitely with that
> >> particular
> >> > reader who may suddenly read a piece of information he or she did not
> >> know
> >> > about. George
> >> >
> >
P.P.S.: latest news: my latest two attempts to get my station ID message
through apparently failed.
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