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ARSCLIST  December 2009

ARSCLIST December 2009

Subject:

Re: Wired on the need for a single comprehensive music database

From:

"Paul Turney, Sirensound Digital UK" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:10:32 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (35 lines)

 ISRC CODES ARE FOR THE FORMAL IDENTIFICATION OF THE ARTIST, THE NAME OF THE WORK ETC.
NOT MEANT TO EXIXT IN A CATALOGUING TERM.
USED FOR ARTIST ROYALTY PAYMENTS AND FOR COLLABORATORS ON THE MUSIC.
HOPE THIS CLEARS THIS POINT UP FOR THE LIST.
THE NUMBERS ARE OBTAINED FROM PPL AND ARE SEQUENTIAL BASED ON YOUR ACCOUNT.



PAUL






Paul Turney
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email message (including any attachments)
is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain
confidential and privileged information

Sirensound Digital UK
Somerford House
22 Somerford Road
Cirencester
 ++44 (0) 1285 642289 
Sirensound Digital UK

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Biel [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 07:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Wired on the need for a single comprehensive music database

By reinventing the wheel I mean that the geeks at Wired seem to thinkthat there have never been any listings of recordings before on-linemusic services, and that they probably have never heard the worddiscography or have ever seen one. The line about making a list ofsongs and using a "unique identifier" is what really set me off. "Musicservices already apply their own unique identifiers to songs in theircatalogs" and that these geeks think that unifying these numbers is THEway to go, is frightening. The records already have their own uniqueidentifiers -- they are the matrix numbers and the company catalognumbers, not numbers made up by the music services. I also doubt thatthey realize that there were recordings before CDs. I also wonder ifthey know that before computers there were things known as books. Andwhile most of the great discographies of the world are not on databasesthat can be seen on computer screens, I sometimes find it much easier todo research with eight or ten discographies spread out open on a tablethen having to click from window to window to window on a computerscreen. I agree that Rigler-Deutsch is a rats nets, because although mysignature is on the title page of the final report (I just happened tobe ARSC president when it was completed -- I didn't have anythingsubstantial to do with compiling it) I couldn't convince the librariansof the AAA who controlled the RDRI, that record collectors withoutlibrary science degrees might be capable of cleaning up the filescreated by the minimally trained data entry personnel. I had proposeddistributing the label films to expert collectors who could clean up thecomputer entries, but they didn't think that people who have spent theirentire lives with records could do things like "attempt a controlledvocabulary of songs, artists" etc. Yet that is what collectors havedone for more years than there have been library catalogs of records. Ihad a group of experienced collectors just salivating at the thought ofgetting a couple of films for a year or so and correcting the database-- for free, I might add -- but there was an aversion among theprofessionals to let the amateurs correct their work. The wheel was already invented by Brian Rust, Tom Lord, John Bruninx,Charles Delauney, Michel Ruppli, Frank Andrews, Pekka Gronow, TimBrooks, Ross Laird, Julian Morton Moses, Carl Kendzioria, Walt Allen,George Blacker, Malcolm Rockwell, Allen Koenigsburg, Steve Barr, RobertDixon, John Godrich, Tony Russel, Bill Moran, Ted Fagen, John Bolig,Reiner Lotz, and yes, Dick Spotswood among many, many others. And Imight add that most of these names are people who were from thecollectors community. Tom Lord's Jazz Discography is available on lineor CD-Rom, and Rockwell's and some of Ruppli's are on CD-Rom. There areall sorts of on-line discography projects including the Victor Project,Brian, JazzDiscography.com, national discography projects in Sweden andseveral other countries, and many others that slip my mind right now. (Steve Barr can probably name them all.) There had been an ARSC computerized project about 10 years ago that fellthrough, utilizing a program which made data entry unified and was goingto be based on existing discographies like those mentioned above. It iswhen "outsiders" like the Wired geeks recommend starting over with thesources being the on-line music service lists without knowing what hasalready been compiled by experts, that is most problematic. Mike Biel [log in to unmask] -------- Original Message --------From: Joel Bresler Hi, Mike, could you please amplify a bit on your answer? I thought theWired article was thought provoking. WorldCat, perhaps the largest repository of discographic information, isnot a database. It grows willy nilly, and there is no attempt at acontrolled vocabulary of songs, artists, and so forth. No tying togetherof 78s with their re-release on LP, CD, etc. The Rigler-Deutsch databaseis a worthy try, but the contents are a rats nest. Dick Spottswood'swonderful EMOR is in print form only, and is not a database per se. If they are talking about reinventing the wheel, please point us to thewheel!!Thanks,JoelJoel Bresler, Publisherwww.sephardicmusic.org-----Original Message-----From: Michael BielReinventing the wheel. What is needed is a knowledge of DISCOGRAPHYamong these computer geeks who think that nothing has happened outsidetheir little world.Mike Biel [log in to unmask] Original Message --------From: "Schooley, John" http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/12/4-ways-one-big-database-would-help-music-fans-industry/4 Ways One Big Database Would Help Music Fans, Industry"The solution to this and other problems dogging the music industrycould be forehead-slappingly simple: one big, free, public databasewith, at the very least, song titles in one column and uniqueidentifiers in another. When online and mobile music services buildtheir own content databases out of the labels' catalogs, they would haveincentives to use the same numbers to identify each song, for thereasons laid out below. Music services already apply their own uniqueidentifiers to songs in their catalogs, so the use of numbers is not theissue - they just need to be the same numbers.This database would have to be free, readily available and totallytransparent, visible to music fans and industry people alike, becausethe barrier to entry for startups to use the system would have to bezero. Open source software making use of the data set, available on thesame website, might encourage services to use the numbers."

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