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ARSCLIST  December 2009

ARSCLIST December 2009

Subject:

Re: tube mixing console project for sale (more about tubes)

From:

Eric Jacobs <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:22:37 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (145 lines)

On Monday, December 21, 2009 6:10 AM, Tom Fine wrote:

> Missing are line amps that would follow the buss-booster
> modules. Gates line amps were a terrible design, so I'd
> recommend you use something like a Langevin or Altec
> module or I was planning on using a John Hardy discrete
> op-amp block (the mic preamps and buss boosters will be
> plenty of "tube sound" so a modern neutral-sounding line
> amp would be beneficial, in my opinion).

Tube-based electronics when designed properly can be just
as neutral-sounding as any modern solid-state design -
perhaps even more neutral than solid-state.  However, there
are definite and fundamental sonic differences between tubes,
transistors and op-amps.

I've come to a new appreciation for tube-based electronics
over the past four years, and have aggregated some of that
learning here:

http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htm

My "tube versus solid-state" research came out of a 4-year
project to build a new archival phono preamp.  I will be
the first to admit that at the beginning of the phono preamp
product development, I was skeptical that a tube-based phono
preamp was the way to go for a super precise archival phono
stage.

It was only after extensive listening tests that I began to
understand tubes better - and I was quite surprised at what
we measured and heard.  Of course, not all tube designs are
known for accuracy (as Tom points out with his comment of
"tube sound").  Some tube designs are better known for
big, lush and dynamic *fun* sound.  In fact, it was this
reputation and the audiophile devotion to that "tube sound"
that made me biased against tubes in the first place.

But tube designs can also be made just as accurate as any
solid-state design, and even have a few sonic advantages
over solid-state - namely dynamics and headroom, less
overall distortion, and harmonic/tone neutrality. Which is
how we came to this:

http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Products_Wavestream_Kinetics.htm

My point is that both tubes and solid-state designs can
be neutral sounding, and in some ways tubes can be more
accurate than solid-state.  However, this level of
accuracy in a tube design is no more easily achieved
than it is with solid-state.

Eric Jacobs

The Audio Archive, Inc.
tel: 408.221.2128
fax: 408.549.9867
mailto:[log in to unmask]
http://www.TheAudioArchive.com
Disc and Tape Audio Transfer Services and Preservation Consulting



-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Tom Fine
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ARSCLIST] tube mixing console project for sale


Sorry in advance for the cross-postings. Please feel free to pass on to
anyone you know who might be
interested but isn't on this list.

Back a few years ago, I bought the pieces to build a Gates-based tube mixing
console similar to what
was in my father's recording studio 1958-1968. I restored two power
supply/monitor amp units and
restored several mic preamp modules, the other modules tested out just fine.

The base for this project is a Gates TV-10. The board is in pretty good
cosmetic shape, it needs a
new escutchen plate in the center because there was a badly-constructed
source-switching pushbutton
array put there by the college station that last used it. The TV-10 is a
true 2-channel board, but
the key switches can be wired for a center buss instead of an "off" loading
resistor (ie they are
3-way switches with all the right terminals in place). I was planning on
rewiring it so it worked
like Altec's stereo board of the same era, with a 3-channel output or
two-channel created by
transformer-splitting and transformer-combining the center into the two
sides (the same way, by the
way that the 3-2 mixdown board used to master all the Mercury Living
Presence stereo LPs and CDs
work). The left side (5 input channels) needs to be rewired but the right
side buss wiring is
intact. I have extensive documentation.

Also included is a Gates STudioette mono mixer and many extra modules and
parts taken from a
stripped out Studioette, stripped out power supplies and several extra mic
preamp modules. Also
included are enough UTC A-series matching transformers to have line inputs
to all faders (I was
planning on doing this via a patchbay). Missing are line amps that would
follow the buss-booster
modules. Gates line amps were a terrible design, so I'd recommend you use
something like a Langevin
or Altec module or I was planning on using a John Hardy discrete op-amp
block (the mic preamps and
buss boosters will be plenty of "tube sound" so a modern neutral-sounding
line amp would be
beneficial, in my opinion).

The 10W monitor amps built onto the power supplies include UTC ultralinear
output transformers. Also
included is a separate standalone monitor amp, complete but un-restored, in
case you wanted to go
with full 3-channel monitoring.

Bottom line for me is, I'll never have time to finish this, and the project
outlived the old-timer
who was helping me get it done. So now I'll sell the pile for about what I
have in it, $1200. If you
cut it all apart and sold it in pieces on eBay, you'll make money. I don't
have the heart to gut out
these things I've restored. If you want a tube console in your life, I doubt
you'll find a complete
rig at a lower price. Please know up-front that you'll need to have
restoration skills or have a
good buddy with those skills. I should add that nothing is filthy like it
got dragged out of a barn.
Most parts have been cleaned off and the console itself was never
ill-stored.

Please ping off-list if interested. I would suggest this is a pickup-only
pile, it's located in
Brewster, NY. All told, enough stuff here to fill a medium-sized SUV or a
spacious car.

-- Tom Fine

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