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ARSCLIST  January 2010

ARSCLIST January 2010

Subject:

Arthur Badrock- Records, Catalogues and Books Auction Reminder

From:

Em Smith <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:49:11 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)


Hi

This is gentle reminder to those of you that requested the list for my late grandfather (Arthur Badrocks) collection. The Auction ends at mindnight GMT on 15th January. 

The list is still available to anyone who is interested, There is a huge amount of 78 records, books and catalogues spanning the 50+ years of his collecting. Many of you will have heard of his work of a discographer and understand just how big his collection was.

Further to the auction lists of his private collction, there is also all of his sale stock, numbering again in the thousands, these items are not yet listed, but if there are particular items, artisits, labels etc you are looking for then this can be checked and the items listed for you tha are relevant.

Hope that those of you who have the list will find something of interest and that others may also be interested.

Please either respond on here or email me on [log in to unmask] with ARSC in the subject line.

Many thanks and a Happy New Year

Emily
 


Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 00:00:03 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ARSCLIST Digest - 4 Jan 2010 to 5 Jan 2010 (#2010-6)
To: [log in to unmask]

 











  

ARSCLIST Digest - 4 Jan 2010 to 5 Jan 2010 (#2010-6)

Table of contents:

The Loudness Wars - NPR story (7) 
Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (6) 
Media Timeline - Death of music business (2) 
Sony and Binaural (15) 
afrs 16" discs - Boston Symphony info needed (2) 
Workshop Announcement 

The Loudness Wars - NPR story

Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story (01/05)
From: Alex Tomlin <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story (01/05)
From: George Brock-Nannestad <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story (01/05)
From: Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story (01/05)
From: John Bondurant <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story (01/05)
From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story (01/05)
From: Frank Strauss <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story (01/05)
From: Ward Duffield <[log in to unmask]>
Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions

Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (01/05)
From: Ward Duffield <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (01/05)
From: Milan P Milovanovic <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (01/05)
From: David Weiner <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (01/05)
From: Ted Kendall <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (01/05)
From: Ted Kendall <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (01/05)
From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
Media Timeline - Death of music business

Re: Media Timeline - Death of music business (01/05)
From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Media Timeline - Death of music business (01/05)
From: "Steven C. Barr" <[log in to unmask]>
Sony and Binaural

Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Dave Lewis <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Dave Lewis <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Lou Judson <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Andrew Hamilton <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: Sony and Binaural (01/05)
From: Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]>
afrs 16" discs - Boston Symphony info needed

afrs 16" discs - Boston Symphony info needed (01/05)
From: Thomas Stern <[log in to unmask]> 
Re: afrs 16" discs - Boston Symphony info needed (01/05)
From: "Kevin P. Mostyn" <[log in to unmask]>
Workshop Announcement

Workshop Announcement (01/05)
From: Bill Walker <[log in to unmask]>


 Browse the ARSCLIST online archives. 

--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:50:26 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story

Happy New Year everyone!
 
Does anyone know if there is an equivalent in the UK to www.hearnet.com?
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lou Judson
Sent: 05 January 2010 00:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] The Loudness Wars - NPR story
 
Check this ut for inspirations:
 
 >http://www.hearnet.com/>
 
<L>
 
On Jan 4, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Gary Powell wrote:
 
> It's sparked my girlfriend and me to discuss the possibility of  
> starting a non-profit vendor of hearing protection for concerts of  
> that sort.
 
 
 
 
 
 
-----------------------------
Registered Office: 15 Stukeley Street, London WC2B 5LT, England.
Registered in England number 1421223
 
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Please note that the information provided in this e-mail is in any case not legally binding; all committing statements require legally binding signatures.
 
 
http://www.inflightproductions.com


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:46:16 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story

From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
 
Hello,
 
in connection with reduced hearing I think I ought to mention that hearing 
aids may actually damage what hearing you have left. If you have a need for 
40+dB amplification at some frequencies, that may be overloading neighbouring 
and still functioning areas. Also note that just because you cannot hear a 
sound it may still have a level that is damaging. So, with hearing aids, 
basically use them only in situations when you really need them.
 
That said, modern hearing aids are extremely sophisticated; they are 
programmable to suit both your hearing and the instant listening environment, 
and they have compressor circuits (rather digital filters) for individual 
compression in different frequency ranges. This is to make the most of the 
reduced dynamics that many old ears experience.
 
The only disco I have ever visited was in Helsinki, Finland, about 25 years 
ago, and they had the good sense only to have a high level on the bass line. 
Very good for rattling your internal organs, but not damaging to your ears. 
By the way, the discotheque was called Brunnshuset (the well house), which 
was quickly observed to be Brunsthuset (the lust house).
 
Kind regards,
 
 
George


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:40:57 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions

Happy New Year to all!
As another year passes, we can be thankful for all the work of recording 
engineers, which provides access into the past.
If we don't like what over-compressed 2010 has to offer, we can retreat 
for a time to another era.
 
And with the new year comes news of a new Artie Shaw issue on Mosaic;
 
 
    Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (#244).
 
 
Does anyone have any info on whether or not this collection, using "the 
original metal parts and pristine vinyl test pressings from the Victor 
and Bluebird vault" offers anything superior to what was already 
available on CD?
I am a huge Artie Shaw fan, and need some rationalization to spend more 
money on material, the majority of which I already own.
I was also intrigued by Mosaic's Chu Berry set.
Thanks for any insights.
 
Ward Duffield, NY


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 15:51:37 +0200
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story

Toilet paper is just the thing to our ears clean from all that #$%^!!!
Shai
(Sorry I couldn't resist myself :-P )
 
Michael Biel wrote:
> I do remember a couple of times entering a venue where there was a big
> punchbowl filled with packets of the foam hearing protectors.  They were
> the flesh-colored (politically incorrect description, sorry) type that I
> find are not as good as the bright green type because the former do not
> re-expand enough fill the ear canal.  However, I find using a half
> square of crumpled soft toilet paper or part of a soft tissue is very
> efficient for me.  Cotton, by the way is USELESS because it freely
> passes high frequencies.  I don't know where it got a reputation for
> hearing protection.  
>
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]  
>
> Gary Powell wrote:
>   
>>> It's sparked my girlfriend and me to discuss the possibility of 
>>> starting a non-profit vendor of hearing protection for concerts of 
>>> that sort.
>>>       
>
> Lou Judson wrote:
>   
>> Check this ut for inspirations:
>>     
>>> http://www.hearnet.com/>
>>>       
> From: Gary Powell <[log in to unmask]>
>   
>> Phenomenal! Thanks!  GP
>>     
>
>   


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:52:34 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story

When I worked live sound in Nashville there was at least on venue (which no longer exists) that had a gumball machine type dispenser of good quality earplugs for about 25 cents a pair. I had a friend who worked for 3M who would send me a case of industrial grade earplugs each year. I would hand them out to band members, friends, or anyone who needed them. One time my cousin came down for a show. As we were leaving the house I said "Hold on, you'll need some protection tonight." He got this really shocked look on his face, and then just grinned when I handed him a package of earplugs.
 
H.E.A.R. IS a phenomenal organization. They always have a booth at AES and NAMM to offer free hearing tests and earplugs. A friend at Clair Brothers got his molded earplugs through one of their programs.
 
My father, father-in-law, and wife have congenital hearing loss, so I am always aware of my hearing (since things can get noisy around them when they don't have their hearing aids on.)
 
 
John H. Bondurant
Sound Preservation Archivist
 
Berea College
Hutchins Library
Special Collections & Archives
CPO LIB
Berea, KY 40404
 (859) 985-3389  (859) 985-3389  - voice
(859) 985-3912 - fax
 
mailto:[log in to unmask]
 
 Please consider whether it is necessary to print this email.
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Biel [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story
 
I do remember a couple of times entering a venue where there was a big
punchbowl filled with packets of the foam hearing protectors.  They were
the flesh-colored (politically incorrect description, sorry) type that I
find are not as good as the bright green type because the former do not
re-expand enough fill the ear canal.  However, I find using a half
square of crumpled soft toilet paper or part of a soft tissue is very
efficient for me.  Cotton, by the way is USELESS because it freely
passes high frequencies.  I don't know where it got a reputation for
hearing protection.  
 
Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]  
 
Gary Powell wrote:
>> It's sparked my girlfriend and me to discuss the possibility of 
>> starting a non-profit vendor of hearing protection for concerts of 
>> that sort.
 
Lou Judson wrote:
> Check this ut for inspirations:
> >http://www.hearnet.com/>
From: Gary Powell <[log in to unmask]>
> Phenomenal! Thanks!  GP


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:16:26 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Media Timeline - Death of music business

I also think that removing a "farm system" and "tastemakers" may be considered more "democratic,"
but it leads to a big pile of junk clogging access to the few nuggets of talent. Who CARES if you
now have instant access to a zillion options of low-talent garbage made in people's basements? It's
not useful in finding talent, it's just a way to waste time listening to the rabble. Back in the
day, there was a "farm system" where people honed their sound and their musical skill BEFORE they
ever got in front of a recording mic. This involved a lot of live performing, in church or in clubs
or in school productions or at community centers, etc. For classically-trained musicians, it
required years of lessons and solitary practice. Then there were "filters" or "taste makers," A&R
folks at the record companies -- music nuts who had ears for what a mass audience would appreciate,
or a niche audience (hence regional/specialty records). The point was, even a mediocre A&R man would
reject a talentless bunch of rank amateurs. Nowadays, these amateurs can be "YouTube Stars" the
first time they pick up instruments and make a stupid video with a cellphone. Now how is that
helpful to people serious about music? There's too little talent out there, too much non-serious
presentation, and when "American Idol" passes for taste-making, you know the end is upon the music
business!
 
-- Tom Fine
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Olhsson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Media Timeline - Death of music business
 
 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From Aaron Luis Levinson: "... It is not about formats nor is it about
> consumer
>> choices. It is about the elevation of mediocrity and the corporatization
> of
>> a field that was once led by people whose consuming passion was music all
>> else followed from that..."
>
> The production of music recordings is probably the least corporatized that
> it has ever been!
>
> The elevation of mediocrity is largely because access to a music career has
> become available only to the upper middle class. There is no longer local,
> totally listener supported music. Almost everything we hear is either
> fulfilling some corporate patron's wishes or else a vanity project funded by
> the performers.
>
> The economic class who used to have the most to gain from putting really
> hard work into their music can no longer get in the door. That leaves just
> the hobbyists who'll take the easy way out using technological crutches
> because they mostly want to look kewl and consider a career to be purely a
> stroke of luck or corporate favoritism. Passion and talent are both
> necessary but meaningless when so many can no longer afford to provide the
> sweat equity that is always behind real musical excellence.
>
> Music used to be a meritocracy. Today it's a rich man's hobby.
>
>
> Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
> Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
> Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
>  615.385.8051  615.385.8051  http://www.hyperback.com    http://www.thewombforums.com
>


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:20:40 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story

The last really loud show I went to was Johnny Winter playing in  small venue in upstate NY. I was 
very thankful for earplugs because it allowed me to get right up on the edge of the stage and watch 
a somewhat diminished but still competent Johnny do his stuff with that funky little guitar he 
plays. His blaring amp was right next to his chair, but the earplugs cut the blare right out so I 
could hear his guitar work. My friend who was foolish and didn't wear earplugs said his ears were 
still ringing a week later.
 
The idea of the 10-cent (or 25-cent or 1-dollar) earplug dispenser at live venues should be adopted 
universally.
 
I have sat close-in enough for orchestras where peak loudness is painful. So potential hearing 
damage lurks at many live music events. That said, I doubt any adult in the industrial world today 
goes to the grave with very good hearing. The environment itself is tinitis-causing.
 
-- Tom Fine
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Bondurant" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] The Loudness Wars - NPR story
 
 
> When I worked live sound in Nashville there was at least on venue (which no longer exists) that 
> had a gumball machine type dispenser of good quality earplugs for about 25 cents a pair. I had a 
> friend who worked for 3M who would send me a case of industrial grade earplugs each year. I would 
> hand them out to band members, friends, or anyone who needed them. One time my cousin came down 
> for a show. As we were leaving the house I said "Hold on, you'll need some protection tonight." He 
> got this really shocked look on his face, and then just grinned when I handed him a package of 
> earplugs.
>
> H.E.A.R. IS a phenomenal organization. They always have a booth at AES and NAMM to offer free 
> hearing tests and earplugs. A friend at Clair Brothers got his molded earplugs through one of 
> their programs.
>
> My father, father-in-law, and wife have congenital hearing loss, so I am always aware of my 
> hearing (since things can get noisy around them when they don't have their hearing aids on.)
>
>
> John H. Bondurant
> Sound Preservation Archivist
>
> Berea College
> Hutchins Library
> Special Collections & Archives
> CPO LIB
> Berea, KY 40404
>  (859) 985-3389  (859) 985-3389  - voice
>  (859) 985-3912  (859) 985-3912  - fax
>
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
>  Please consider whether it is necessary to print this email.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Biel [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:23 PM
> Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story
>
> I do remember a couple of times entering a venue where there was a big
> punchbowl filled with packets of the foam hearing protectors.  They were
> the flesh-colored (politically incorrect description, sorry) type that I
> find are not as good as the bright green type because the former do not
> re-expand enough fill the ear canal.  However, I find using a half
> square of crumpled soft toilet paper or part of a soft tissue is very
> efficient for me.  Cotton, by the way is USELESS because it freely
> passes high frequencies.  I don't know where it got a reputation for
> hearing protection.
>
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
>
> Gary Powell wrote:
>>> It's sparked my girlfriend and me to discuss the possibility of
>>> starting a non-profit vendor of hearing protection for concerts of
>>> that sort.
>
> Lou Judson wrote:
>> Check this ut for inspirations:
>> >http://www.hearnet.com/>
> From: Gary Powell <[log in to unmask]>
>> Phenomenal! Thanks!  GP
> 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:25:34 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions

It is interesting that this material doesn't include vocal tracks. I'm also 
huge Artie Shaw fan, I feel so much disappointed with such irrational 
decision to exclude Helen Forest tracks from this set.
 
Are those vocal tracks kind of a shame to history of Shaw's band?
 
About sound quality of this set opinions are different. You can find some 
under "Audio Quality" on this page
http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=244-MD-CD
 
To my ears sample clips at the right area of the very same page are not so 
well, too many digital artifacts...
 
Best wishes,
 
Milan
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ward Duffield" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:40 PM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions
 
 
> Happy New Year to all!
> As another year passes, we can be thankful for all the work of recording 
> engineers, which provides access into the past.
> If we don't like what over-compressed 2010 has to offer, we can retreat 
> for a time to another era.
>
> And with the new year comes news of a new Artie Shaw issue on Mosaic;
>
>
>    Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (#244).
>
>
> Does anyone have any info on whether or not this collection, using "the 
> original metal parts and pristine vinyl test pressings from the Victor and 
> Bluebird vault" offers anything superior to what was already available on 
> CD?
> I am a huge Artie Shaw fan, and need some rationalization to spend more 
> money on material, the majority of which I already own.
> I was also intrigued by Mosaic's Chu Berry set.
> Thanks for any insights.
>
> Ward Duffield, NY 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:46:15 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
 
> The last really loud show I went to was Johnny Winter playing in  small
> venue in upstate NY. I was very thankful for earplugs because it allowed me
> to get right up on the edge of the stage and watch a somewhat diminished but
> still competent Johnny do his stuff with that funky little guitar he plays.
> His blaring amp was right next to his chair, but the earplugs cut the blare
> right out so I could hear his guitar work. My friend who was foolish and
> didn't wear earplugs said his ears were still ringing a week later.
>
> I'll put $.02 in as a dentist and a long term snare drummer in a bagpipe
band.  The dental thing and old age have pretty much wasted my high
frequency response, but I have tried really hard to wear ear protection
while playing with the band.  I have used several different versions of the
compressible foam ear plugs, to good effect.  I and a lot of pipe band
people use an ear protector from the Etymotic company called the ETY.  It is
a step above the foam ear plugs and is in the $10-15 range.  I always bring
a bag of extra foam plugs to indoor practices and performances, and push
real hard for anyone who will (can) listen, especially the young and
foolish, to use them.  Tom-you are absolutely right-I went to a Sting
concert many years ago, and used foam protectors.  It was incredibly
enjoyable to actually hear the words.
 
 
-- 
Frank B Strauss, DMD


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:01:44 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Sony and Binaural

Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
 
 
 
"In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
"Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
[...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
has, tragically, now gone."
 
 
 
Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
 
 
 
However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
 
 
 
David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
 
Assistant Editor, Classical
 
Rovi Corporation
 
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:42:38 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely 
independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
Anything else is a fantasy.
 
Mike Gray
 
Dave Lewis wrote:
> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>
>  
>
> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
> has, tragically, now gone."
>
>  
>
> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>
>  
>
> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>
>  
>
> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>
> Assistant Editor, Classical
>
> Rovi Corporation
>
>  
>   


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:50:49 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

That's what it was. I wasn't questioning the technique; I was
questioning whether, as it says, Sony has discontinued this kind of
restoration work. The results are quite convincing.
 
David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
 
Assistant Editor, Classical 
 
Rovi Corporation
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Gray
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sony and Binaural
 
For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely 
independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
Anything else is a fantasy.
 
Mike Gray
 
Dave Lewis wrote:
> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven
Symphony
> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>
>  
>
> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios
in
> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All
American
> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer
tour.
> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the
Leopold
> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally.
These
> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s
in
> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior
executives
> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for
storage
> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
> has, tragically, now gone."
>
>  
>
> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final
Stokowski
> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people
should
> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we
have
> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the
legal
> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>
>  
>
> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to
assume
> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>
>  
>
> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>
> Assistant Editor, Classical
>
> Rovi Corporation
>
>  
>   


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:57:53 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

Are you sure it isn't simply two lathes side by side? Sybcing them on  
PB would be a fub thiung.
<L>
 
On Jan 5, 2010, at 8:42 AM, Mike Gray wrote:
 
> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two  
> entirely independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc- 
> cutters. Anything else is a fantasy.
>
> Mike Gray
>
> Dave Lewis wrote:
>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven  
>> Symphony
>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>>
>>
>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music  
>> Studios in
>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All  
>> American
>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer  
>> tour.
>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the  
>> recordings
>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>> "Right" respectively.


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:02:56 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

Not really, at least for the pop and jazz catalogs.  But the big program 
planned for Masterworks Heritage taken from the original tapes and 
lacquers died from lack of sales.
 
Mike
 
Dave Lewis wrote:
> That's what it was. I wasn't questioning the technique; I was
> questioning whether, as it says, Sony has discontinued this kind of
> restoration work. The results are quite convincing.
>
> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>
> Assistant Editor, Classical 
>
> Rovi Corporation
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Gray
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sony and Binaural
>
> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely 
> independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
> Anything else is a fantasy.
>
> Mike Gray
>
> Dave Lewis wrote:
>   
>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven
>>     
> Symphony
>   
>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>>
>>  
>>
>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios
>>     
> in
>   
>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All
>>     
> American
>   
>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer
>>     
> tour.
>   
>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the
>>     
> Leopold
>   
>> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
>> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
>> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
>> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally.
>>     
> These
>   
>> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s
>>     
> in
>   
>> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
>> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior
>>     
> executives
>   
>> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
>> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for
>>     
> storage
>   
>> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
>> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
>> has, tragically, now gone."
>>
>>  
>>
>> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final
>>     
> Stokowski
>   
>> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
>> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people
>>     
> should
>   
>> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we
>>     
> have
>   
>> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the
>>     
> legal
>   
>> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
>> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
>> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
>> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>>
>>  
>>
>> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
>> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to
>>     
> assume
>   
>> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
>> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>>
>>  
>>
>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>>
>> Assistant Editor, Classical
>>
>> Rovi Corporation
>>
>>  
>>   
>>     


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:21:49 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely
> independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
> Anything else is a fantasy.   Mike Gray
 
Since Stokowski had already participated in many stereophonic recording
sessions since the early 30s, there is a high likelyhood that these ARE
stereo recordings.  The proof would be on Cala 551, of course.  But also
consider, recording in multiple "angles" was common practice in several
Hollywood movie studios by the late 30s. 
 
On another related note, while you have certainly far more experience
with the EMI archives than I, I have been reading recently that
paperwork there DO indicate some recordings made in what is now termed
"accidental stereo" despite their protestations to the contrary in the
80s.
 
Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
 
Dave Lewis wrote:
> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>
> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
> has, tragically, now gone."
>
> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>
> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>
> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis  Assistant Editor, Classical  Rovi Corporation


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:28:48 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions

The sound is very good - and there are around a dozen newly discovered
alternates included.  Unfortunately, only the "jazz" vocals by Tony Pastor,
Hot Lips Page and Roy Eldridge are included; so no Helen Forrest, Pauline
Byrne, Martha Tilton, Anita Boyer, Fredda Gibson, Paula Kelly, or Imogene
Lynn. 
 
Dave Weiner
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ward Duffield
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions
 
Happy New Year to all!
As another year passes, we can be thankful for all the work of recording 
engineers, which provides access into the past.
If we don't like what over-compressed 2010 has to offer, we can retreat 
for a time to another era.
 
And with the new year comes news of a new Artie Shaw issue on Mosaic;
 
 
    Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (#244).
 
 
Does anyone have any info on whether or not this collection, using "the 
original metal parts and pristine vinyl test pressings from the Victor 
and Bluebird vault" offers anything superior to what was already 
available on CD?
I am a huge Artie Shaw fan, and need some rationalization to spend more 
money on material, the majority of which I already own.
I was also intrigued by Mosaic's Chu Berry set.
Thanks for any insights.
 
Ward Duffield, NY


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:56:22 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions

Well, I can't speak for the Artie Shaw as I haven't heard it, but I did the 
Chu Berry, and my experience of Mosaic is that they demand, and appreciate, 
the best you can give, and they go to great lengths to find the best source 
material, too. So if there's a margin of improvement to be found, chances 
are they've found it. The quality of Chu is for others to judge, but the 
music's wonderful...
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ward Duffield" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:40 PM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions
 
 
> Happy New Year to all!
> As another year passes, we can be thankful for all the work of recording 
> engineers, which provides access into the past.
> If we don't like what over-compressed 2010 has to offer, we can retreat 
> for a time to another era.
>
> And with the new year comes news of a new Artie Shaw issue on Mosaic;
>
>
>    Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (#244).
>
>
> Does anyone have any info on whether or not this collection, using "the 
> original metal parts and pristine vinyl test pressings from the Victor and 
> Bluebird vault" offers anything superior to what was already available on 
> CD?
> I am a huge Artie Shaw fan, and need some rationalization to spend more 
> money on material, the majority of which I already own.
> I was also intrigued by Mosaic's Chu Berry set.
> Thanks for any insights.
>
> Ward Duffield, NY
> 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:07:07 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions

Sorry if I'm being thick here, but isn't it a bit rash to judge a 
restoration on download quality? In my experience the data reduction 
sacrifices those elusive qualities of "air" and "openness" I, for one, 
strive to preserve...
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Milan P Milovanovic" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions
 
 
> It is interesting that this material doesn't include vocal tracks. I'm 
> also huge Artie Shaw fan, I feel so much disappointed with such irrational 
> decision to exclude Helen Forest tracks from this set.
>
> Are those vocal tracks kind of a shame to history of Shaw's band?
>
> About sound quality of this set opinions are different. You can find some 
> under "Audio Quality" on this page
> http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=244-MD-CD
>
> To my ears sample clips at the right area of the very same page are not so 
> well, too many digital artifacts...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Milan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ward Duffield" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:40 PM
> Subject: [ARSCLIST] Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions
>
>
>> Happy New Year to all!
>> As another year passes, we can be thankful for all the work of recording 
>> engineers, which provides access into the past.
>> If we don't like what over-compressed 2010 has to offer, we can retreat 
>> for a time to another era.
>>
>> And with the new year comes news of a new Artie Shaw issue on Mosaic;
>>
>>
>>    Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (#244).
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any info on whether or not this collection, using "the 
>> original metal parts and pristine vinyl test pressings from the Victor 
>> and Bluebird vault" offers anything superior to what was already 
>> available on CD?
>> I am a huge Artie Shaw fan, and need some rationalization to spend more 
>> money on material, the majority of which I already own.
>> I was also intrigued by Mosaic's Chu Berry set.
>> Thanks for any insights.
>>
>> Ward Duffield, NY
> 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:17:30 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

I thought some of those Masterworks Heritage packages were really good.  I think by the time Sony 
got up the effort to do those kinds of re-issues, the boat had sailed.  It's too bad because they 
needed time to go and re-do all the crapola digital transfers they did to load the market early in 
the CD era.
 
-- Tom Fine
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Gray" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sony and Binaural
 
 
> Not really, at least for the pop and jazz catalogs.  But the big program planned for Masterworks 
> Heritage taken from the original tapes and lacquers died from lack of sales.
>
> Mike
>
> Dave Lewis wrote:
>> That's what it was. I wasn't questioning the technique; I was
>> questioning whether, as it says, Sony has discontinued this kind of
>> restoration work. The results are quite convincing.
>>
>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>>
>> Assistant Editor, Classical
>> Rovi Corporation
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Gray
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:43 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sony and Binaural
>>
>> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely independent microphone 
>> mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. Anything else is a fantasy.
>>
>> Mike Gray
>>
>> Dave Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven
>>>
>> Symphony
>>
>>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>>>
>>>
>>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios
>>>
>> in
>>
>>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All
>>>
>> American
>>
>>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer
>>>
>> tour.
>>
>>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
>>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>>> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the
>>>
>> Leopold
>>
>>> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
>>> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
>>> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
>>> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally.
>>>
>> These
>>
>>> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s
>>>
>> in
>>
>>> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
>>> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior
>>>
>> executives
>>
>>> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
>>> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for
>>>
>> storage
>>
>>> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
>>> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
>>> has, tragically, now gone."
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final
>>>
>> Stokowski
>>
>>> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
>>> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people
>>>
>> should
>>
>>> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we
>>>
>> have
>>
>>> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the
>>>
>> legal
>>
>>> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
>>> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
>>> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
>>> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>>>
>>>
>>> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
>>> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to
>>>
>> assume
>>
>>> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
>>> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth?
>>>
>>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>>>
>>> Assistant Editor, Classical
>>>
>>> Rovi Corporation
>>>
>>>
> 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:23:20 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions

It's hard to tell from the streaming WinMedia samples, but it seems like the Chu Berry set was less 
processed against surface noise than the Shaw set.
 
-- Tom Fine
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ted Kendall" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions
 
 
> Well, I can't speak for the Artie Shaw as I haven't heard it, but I did the Chu Berry, and my 
> experience of Mosaic is that they demand, and appreciate, the best you can give, and they go to 
> great lengths to find the best source material, too. So if there's a margin of improvement to be 
> found, chances are they've found it. The quality of Chu is for others to judge, but the music's 
> wonderful...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ward Duffield" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:40 PM
> Subject: [ARSCLIST] Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions
>
>
>> Happy New Year to all!
>> As another year passes, we can be thankful for all the work of recording engineers, which 
>> provides access into the past.
>> If we don't like what over-compressed 2010 has to offer, we can retreat for a time to another 
>> era.
>>
>> And with the new year comes news of a new Artie Shaw issue on Mosaic;
>>
>>
>>    Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions (#244).
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any info on whether or not this collection, using "the original metal parts and 
>> pristine vinyl test pressings from the Victor and Bluebird vault" offers anything superior to 
>> what was already available on CD?
>> I am a huge Artie Shaw fan, and need some rationalization to spend more money on material, the 
>> majority of which I already own.
>> I was also intrigued by Mosaic's Chu Berry set.
>> Thanks for any insights.
>>
>> Ward Duffield, NY
>>
> 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:31:38 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

Actually, I have heard the Cala disc through high quality headphones ... 
I remain unconvinced that it's the real thing.
 
Separate tracks on mechanical carriers that contain 'identical' signal 
content will be just different enough to create 'stereo' - read 
out-of-phase - effects when they are aligned.
 
Even sources recorded in separate channels on the same carrier can prove 
problematic: when EMI engineers tried using digital delay on their 
earliest two-track staggered-head Stereosonic' tapes, they discovered 
that they couldn't entirely overcome HF comb filtering.
 
As for undiscovered stereo, the late Tony Griffith told me without 
qualification that there was no such thing - in other words, a fantasy.
 
Mike
Michael Biel wrote:
> From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
>   
>> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely
>> independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
>> Anything else is a fantasy.   Mike Gray
>>     
>
> Since Stokowski had already participated in many stereophonic recording
> sessions since the early 30s, there is a high likelyhood that these ARE
> stereo recordings.  The proof would be on Cala 551, of course.  But also
> consider, recording in multiple "angles" was common practice in several
> Hollywood movie studios by the late 30s. 
>
> On another related note, while you have certainly far more experience
> with the EMI archives than I, I have been reading recently that
> paperwork there DO indicate some recordings made in what is now termed
> "accidental stereo" despite their protestations to the contrary in the
> 80s.
>
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
>
> Dave Lewis wrote:
>   
>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>>
>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
>> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
>> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
>> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
>> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
>> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
>> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
>> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
>> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
>> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
>> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
>> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
>> has, tragically, now gone."
>>
>> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
>> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
>> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
>> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
>> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
>> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
>> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
>> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
>> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>>
>> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
>> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
>> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
>> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>>
>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis  Assistant Editor, Classical  Rovi Corporation
>>     


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:17:36 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
> Actually, I have heard the Cala disc through high quality headphones ... 
> I remain unconvinced that it's the real thing.
 
Did you phase reverse one of the channels and combine them?
 
> Separate tracks on mechanical carriers that contain 'identical' signal 
> content will be just different enough to create 'stereo' - read 
> out-of-phase - effects when they are aligned.
 
There is a distinct difference between electrical phasing and time
allignment phasing based on the mechanical wavelengths of the sound
waves.  If you play two identical records on a pair of tables they can
be fused to create a perfect common signal or phase reversed to cancel
100%.  If the cancellation cannot be achieved, there does have to be a
difference.  Differences in flatness of frequency curves -- such as in
two different cutter heads in a 1 and 1-A pair of masters -- might
change the levels at which any particular frequency will be heard in one
recording vs. another, but if they are both fed from the same source
they will cancel noticably.  All wavelengths will be time-alligned even
if there are slight level differences at different frequencies.  If they
were fed by different mics are at different locations from each other,
they will not cancel.  (They might cancel if the different mics were in
a co-incidental array with each other, a distinct possibility in England
because that was one of Blumlein's stereo arrays.  Quite possibly his
stereo tests recorded with this array might phase cancel despite us
knowing that they ARE stereo.)  
 
Try talking into two combined phase-reversed microphones that are right
together in the same vertical plane in front of you.  Even though there
are mechanical differences between any two microphones, the cancellation
is almost complete, compromised only by frequency flatness differences. 
Then move ONE of the mics further away from you so that there is a time
differential.  Electrical equalization will not bring the mics back into
cancellation because some frequencies will be hitting the mics sooner or
later than the other at a different rate based on wavelength of the
frequencies.  I am not sure what will happen with time delay of one the
channels -- you might be able to get back to cancellation if the mics
are only a foot or two in front and back of each other -- but the
further apart and aside the mics are from each other, the less likely
the two can be recombined.  Add in several voices or instruments coming
from different locations, and the two mics can't be combined
out-of-phase to cancel.   
 
> Even sources recorded in separate channels on the same carrier can
> prove problematic: when EMI engineers tried using digital delay on
> their earliest two-track staggered-head Stereosonic' tapes, they
> discovered that they couldn't entirely overcome HF comb filtering.
 
Why does everybody now seem to think that digital is the perfect answer
to everything???  Did they try the "old fashioned" way where they could
adjust mechanical azimuith on two separate heads??  As I have stated
here before, the head separation on some Otari models between the record
and reproduce heads is identical to the original staggered standard.  I
have a few of Robert Oakes Jordan's masters that sounded fine this way. 
 
 
There are also phase problems with the 1956 Fantasia stereo transfers
because they were done thru phone lines from Burbank to Hollywood, but
there is no doubt that they are rather effective stereo.  It is why the
DVDs offer a separate mono soundtrack because the stereo can't really be
properly combined to mono.  
 
> As for undiscovered stereo, the late Tony Griffith told me without 
> qualification that there was no such thing - in other words, a fantasy.
> Mike
 
Yes, I have him on videotape saying that, but he also said that he based
his claim on what he had been told years earlier by an oldtimer because
he himself had not been there.  At that point he had not done any
personal listening or first hand research.  I don't have my file where I
am now, but a couple of books I was reading a few months ago gave some
specific quotes from session sheets and memos from the time citing quite
the opposite.  I'll try to dig that up when I get back in a few weeks.  
 
Try an experiment with re-creating accidental stereo.  Make two
recordings on two separate machines from one mic feeding both.  Then do
it with a different mic in a different location feeding the second
machine.  You will be able to combine the two recording machines
out-of-phase to cancel when they are fed by the same mic but you will
not be able to do it for the recording with the two machines being fed
by different mics in a different location.  
 
It is THIS test that can prove if any 1 and 1-A master are fed from the
same or different mics.  From what I see on the videotape, Griffith had
not done these tests but that a very uneasy Gerald Plano sitting next to
him had (on an oscilloscope, I think).
 
Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
 
 
Michael Biel wrote:
> From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
> 
>> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely
>> independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
>> Anything else is a fantasy. Mike Gray
>> 
>
> Since Stokowski had already participated in many stereophonic recording
> sessions since the early 30s, there is a high likelyhood that these ARE
> stereo recordings. The proof would be on Cala 551, of course. But also
> consider, recording in multiple "angles" was common practice in several
> Hollywood movie studios by the late 30s. 
>
> On another related note, while you have certainly far more experience
> with the EMI archives than I, I have been reading recently that
> paperwork there DO indicate some recordings made in what is now termed
> "accidental stereo" despite their protestations to the contrary in the
> 80s.
>
> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>
> Dave Lewis wrote:
> 
>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>>
>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
>> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
>> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
>> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
>> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
>> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
>> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
>> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
>> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
>> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
>> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
>> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
>> has, tragically, now gone."
>>
>> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
>> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
>> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
>> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
>> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
>> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
>> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
>> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
>> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>>
>> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
>> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
>> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
>> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>>
>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis Assistant Editor, Classical Rovi Corporation
>>


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:00:21 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

Starting from the last comment ... In addition to having Tony Griffith's 
testimony, I also have copies of HMV recording sheets (the earliest 
Abbey Road from 1937, the earliest French from 1934), including sessions 
at which 1 and 1-A machines were in use.  Neither the electrical data, 
cutting data nor the microphones in use substantiate the idea that 
unintentional stereo was intended or created.
 
Michael makes a good point ref. time alignment vs. electrical phasing.  
My point is that unless one is using a sync track or mechanical linkage, 
two separate turntables not have enough linear similarities (unlike two 
pressings made from the same metal part, of course!) to usefully create 
'stereo'
 
Finally, EMI didn't keep the staggered-head tape machine, so they had to 
use digital delay.  Luckily, that machine was soon replaced with 
standard in-line head machines.  Besides, editing the staggered-head 
tapes was almost impossible.
 
Mike G.
 
Michael Biel wrote:
> From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
>   
>> Actually, I have heard the Cala disc through high quality headphones ... 
>> I remain unconvinced that it's the real thing.
>>     
>
> Did you phase reverse one of the channels and combine them?
>
>   
>> Separate tracks on mechanical carriers that contain 'identical' signal 
>> content will be just different enough to create 'stereo' - read 
>> out-of-phase - effects when they are aligned.
>>     
>
> There is a distinct difference between electrical phasing and time
> allignment phasing based on the mechanical wavelengths of the sound
> waves.  If you play two identical records on a pair of tables they can
> be fused to create a perfect common signal or phase reversed to cancel
> 100%.  If the cancellation cannot be achieved, there does have to be a
> difference.  Differences in flatness of frequency curves -- such as in
> two different cutter heads in a 1 and 1-A pair of masters -- might
> change the levels at which any particular frequency will be heard in one
> recording vs. another, but if they are both fed from the same source
> they will cancel noticably.  All wavelengths will be time-alligned even
> if there are slight level differences at different frequencies.  If they
> were fed by different mics are at different locations from each other,
> they will not cancel.  (They might cancel if the different mics were in
> a co-incidental array with each other, a distinct possibility in England
> because that was one of Blumlein's stereo arrays.  Quite possibly his
> stereo tests recorded with this array might phase cancel despite us
> knowing that they ARE stereo.)  
>
> Try talking into two combined phase-reversed microphones that are right
> together in the same vertical plane in front of you.  Even though there
> are mechanical differences between any two microphones, the cancellation
> is almost complete, compromised only by frequency flatness differences. 
> Then move ONE of the mics further away from you so that there is a time
> differential.  Electrical equalization will not bring the mics back into
> cancellation because some frequencies will be hitting the mics sooner or
> later than the other at a different rate based on wavelength of the
> frequencies.  I am not sure what will happen with time delay of one the
> channels -- you might be able to get back to cancellation if the mics
> are only a foot or two in front and back of each other -- but the
> further apart and aside the mics are from each other, the less likely
> the two can be recombined.  Add in several voices or instruments coming
> from different locations, and the two mics can't be combined
> out-of-phase to cancel.   
>
>   
>> Even sources recorded in separate channels on the same carrier can
>> prove problematic: when EMI engineers tried using digital delay on
>> their earliest two-track staggered-head Stereosonic' tapes, they
>> discovered that they couldn't entirely overcome HF comb filtering.
>>     
>
> Why does everybody now seem to think that digital is the perfect answer
> to everything???  Did they try the "old fashioned" way where they could
> adjust mechanical azimuith on two separate heads??  As I have stated
> here before, the head separation on some Otari models between the record
> and reproduce heads is identical to the original staggered standard.  I
> have a few of Robert Oakes Jordan's masters that sounded fine this way. 
>
>
> There are also phase problems with the 1956 Fantasia stereo transfers
> because they were done thru phone lines from Burbank to Hollywood, but
> there is no doubt that they are rather effective stereo.  It is why the
> DVDs offer a separate mono soundtrack because the stereo can't really be
> properly combined to mono.  
>
>   
>> As for undiscovered stereo, the late Tony Griffith told me without 
>> qualification that there was no such thing - in other words, a fantasy.
>> Mike
>>     
>
> Yes, I have him on videotape saying that, but he also said that he based
> his claim on what he had been told years earlier by an oldtimer because
> he himself had not been there.  At that point he had not done any
> personal listening or first hand research.  I don't have my file where I
> am now, but a couple of books I was reading a few months ago gave some
> specific quotes from session sheets and memos from the time citing quite
> the opposite.  I'll try to dig that up when I get back in a few weeks.  
>
> Try an experiment with re-creating accidental stereo.  Make two
> recordings on two separate machines from one mic feeding both.  Then do
> it with a different mic in a different location feeding the second
> machine.  You will be able to combine the two recording machines
> out-of-phase to cancel when they are fed by the same mic but you will
> not be able to do it for the recording with the two machines being fed
> by different mics in a different location.  
>
> It is THIS test that can prove if any 1 and 1-A master are fed from the
> same or different mics.  From what I see on the videotape, Griffith had
> not done these tests but that a very uneasy Gerald Plano sitting next to
> him had (on an oscilloscope, I think).
>
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
>
>
> Michael Biel wrote:
>   
>> From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>     
>>> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely
>>> independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
>>> Anything else is a fantasy. Mike Gray
>>>
>>>       
>> Since Stokowski had already participated in many stereophonic recording
>> sessions since the early 30s, there is a high likelyhood that these ARE
>> stereo recordings. The proof would be on Cala 551, of course. But also
>> consider, recording in multiple "angles" was common practice in several
>> Hollywood movie studios by the late 30s. 
>>
>> On another related note, while you have certainly far more experience
>> with the EMI archives than I, I have been reading recently that
>> paperwork there DO indicate some recordings made in what is now termed
>> "accidental stereo" despite their protestations to the contrary in the
>> 80s.
>>
>> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Dave Lewis wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
>>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>>>
>>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
>>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
>>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
>>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
>>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>>> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
>>> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
>>> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
>>> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
>>> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
>>> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
>>> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
>>> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
>>> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
>>> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
>>> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
>>> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
>>> has, tragically, now gone."
>>>
>>> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
>>> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
>>> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
>>> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
>>> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
>>> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
>>> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
>>> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
>>> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>>>
>>> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
>>> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
>>> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
>>> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>>>
>>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis Assistant Editor, Classical Rovi Corporation
>>>
>>>       


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:22:54 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: afrs 16" discs - Boston Symphony info needed

Can someone provide matrix nos./catalog numbers
for the following:
 
Armed Forces Radio Service, Boston Symphony No. 38 [16 inch, vinyl, 2 discs, 4 sides].
GRETCHANINOV: Ecumenical Mass, opus 174   1944/02/26
 
label scan would also be very useful.
 
Thanks!
Best wishes, Thomas.


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:31:08 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

IF one had to work with one of these tapes, wouldn't more accuracy be  
possible by slipping the tracks in a DAW rather than a real-time  
delay? If I had one I'd try it!
 
Thus "had to use digital delay" is not the only way to do it.  
Granted, slipping tracks is still a sort of DDL, but one less process  
involved.
 
Lou
Lou Judson
Intuitive Audio
 415-883-2689  415-883-2689 
 
On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:00 PM, Mike Gray wrote:
 
> Finally, EMI didn't keep the staggered-head tape machine, so they  
> had to use digital delay.  Luckily, that machine was soon replaced  
> with standard in-line head machines.  Besides, editing the  
> staggered-head tapes was almost impossible.


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:38:38 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

The transfer was made back in the 80's before DAWs ... alas, that tool 
didn't exist then.
 
Mike
 
Lou Judson wrote:
> IF one had to work with one of these tapes, wouldn't more accuracy be 
> possible by slipping the tracks in a DAW rather than a real-time 
> delay? If I had one I'd try it!
>
> Thus "had to use digital delay" is not the only way to do it. Granted, 
> slipping tracks is still a sort of DDL, but one less process involved.
>
> Lou
> Lou Judson
> Intuitive Audio
>  415-883-2689  415-883-2689 
>
> On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:00 PM, Mike Gray wrote:
>
>> Finally, EMI didn't keep the staggered-head tape machine, so they had 
>> to use digital delay.  Luckily, that machine was soon replaced with 
>> standard in-line head machines.  Besides, editing the staggered-head 
>> tapes was almost impossible.


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 13:59:25 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

Would have been interesting if they had made a straight 2 track  
transfer so it could be post-engineered! But they were not so far- 
sighted back in the day. Plus the delays were less sophisticated.
Just thinking aloud.
 
<L>
 
On Jan 5, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Mike Gray wrote:
 
> The transfer was made back in the 80's before DAWs ... alas, that  
> tool didn't exist then.
>
> Mike
>
> Lou Judson wrote:
>> IF one had to work with one of these tapes, wouldn't more accuracy  
>> be possible by slipping the tracks in a DAW rather than a real- 
>> time delay? If I had one I'd try it!


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:04:38 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Workshop Announcement

Registration is now open for the "Digitizing Analog Audio Resources"
Workshop.
 
 
 
Date: February 16, 2010
 
Location: Amigos Library Services
 
                
 
   
For a complete course description, pricing, and online registration, go
to
http://www.amigos.org/learning/catalog/shopping/product_details.php?id=3
5 
 
 
 
For the most up-to-date training schedule, a complete list of courses,
descriptions, and a convenient online registration form, go to
http://www.amigos.org/learning/calendar/
<http://www.amigos.org/learning/calendar/?utm_source=training-mass&utm_m
edium=list&utm_content=aug2007-lodigimag&utm_campaign=training>  or
contact Chris Brown, [log in to unmask],  1-800-843-8482  1-800-843-8482 , ext. 2829. 
_____________________________________________________________________ 
Amigos Library Services | 14400 Midway Road | Dallas, TX  75244-3509
 
 
 
 
 
Bill Walker
 
Imaging Field Services Officer
 
Amigos Library Services, 
 
14400 Midway Road, 
 
Dallas, TX 75244-3509
 
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 972-340-2853  972-340-2853  (direct)
 
972-991-6061 (fax)
 
Email: [log in to unmask] 
 
Web: www.amigos.org
 
 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:19:01 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

Quite right.  And, as the Wacky-Package on the topic continues:
 
"...these labelling differences led to a couple of experiments whereby the
"Left" and "Right" lacquers of two recordings were painstakingly
synchronised.  These experiments proved that for these sessions two separate
microphones had been used, placed near each other and each leading to its
own turntable, with binaural sound being the result when synchronised.  The
two binaural recordings were made available to the Leopold Stokowski Society
and both have now been released on CD: Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries on
Cala Records CACD0549 and the 'Scherzo' from Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's
Dream on Cala Records CACD0551."
 
 
Andrew
 
 
 
P. S., Hi there, Mr. Lewis!   Got any Elvis (wine)?
 
 
On 1/5/10 11:42 AM, "Mike Gray" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
 
> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely
> independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters.
> Anything else is a fantasy.
> 
> Mike Gray
> 
> Dave Lewis wrote:
>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
>> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
>> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
>> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
>> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
>> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
>> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
>> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
>> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
>> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
>> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
>> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
>> has, tragically, now gone."
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
>> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
>> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
>> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
>> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
>> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
>> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
>> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
>> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
>> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
>> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
>> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>> 
>> Assistant Editor, Classical
>> 
>> Rovi Corporation
>> 
>>  
>>   
 
-- 
[log in to unmask]
www.serifsound.com 


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:19:47 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sony and Binaural

From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
> Michael makes a good point ref. time alignment vs. electrical phasing. 
> My point is that unless one is using a sync track or mechanical linkage, 
> two separate turntables not have enough linear similarities (unlike two 
> pressings made from the same metal part, of course!) to usefully create 
> 'stereo'
 
It is easily possible to tell the difference between identical masters
or not, to see if it is worth a try. Some masters will, even if just for
a few seconds, easily sync and cancel when combined phase reversed, and
others will be impossible to cancel out anywhere in the recording. 
Listening to the Ellington Program Transcriptions, transferred the first
time by Brad Kay and Steve Lasker for the Everybodys LP and again by
Seth Winner for BMG CDs, they sound pretty convincing.  Brad and Steve
had to resync 4 or 5 times per side, but Seth reports that much to his
surprise, one side maintained sync from start to finish and the other
needed only one resync.  The results are released and available to be
heard.
 
I've ordered the CALA CD and hope to be able to report on it soon.  But
even listening to the on-line samples, they sound VERY convincing on
speakers, especially at :39 in the Beethoven Sym 7.  And with headphones
that have a mono-stereo switch, the difference is striking!!  All of you
can check them for yourselves:
 
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=309410#samples
 
I just had Leah dub the samples onto Audacity and you can see the
differences in the instrument pick-ups in the waveforms and the
metering.  In mono I don't hear phasing problems, and the notes do not
have dual-attacks.  I haven't yet figured a way to phase-reverse and
combine here.  I'm not in my studio so I am working on computers, not
REAL equipment!
 
> In addition to having Tony Griffith's 
> testimony, I also have copies of HMV recording sheets (the earliest 
> Abbey Road from 1937, the earliest French from 1934), including sessions 
> at which 1 and 1-A machines were in use. Neither the electrical data, 
> cutting data nor the microphones in use substantiate the idea that 
> unintentional stereo was intended or created.
 
I should have made myself a little clearer that 99% of sessions using
dual-mastering have both recorders fed by the identical signal.  That
there are a few -- very few -- sessions done differently is the real
point of interest.  And from what I remember, they dated from before
your 34 and 37 dates, back into the 20s before Abbey Road, but even into
the early Abbey Road years.  
 
> Finally, EMI didn't keep the staggered-head tape machine, so they
> had to use digital delay. Luckily, that machine was soon replaced
> with standard in-line head machines. 
 
It would not have cost all that much to re-do a head block on one of the
fancy machines they still had.  But heaven forbid they lower themselves
to try playing the tapes on an Otari!
 
> Besides, editing the staggered-head tapes was almost impossible.
> Mike G.
 
Edit after transferring!  But yes, that is a major fault of the system,
much like SECAM TV which can't be edited or switched because there is no
such thing as a "frame" because every frame depends on the one before
and the one after it.  (Their studios were PAL!)  
 
 
Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]  
 
 
 
Michael Biel wrote:
> From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
> 
>> Actually, I have heard the Cala disc through high quality headphones ... 
>> I remain unconvinced that it's the real thing.
>> 
>
> Did you phase reverse one of the channels and combine them?
>
> 
>> Separate tracks on mechanical carriers that contain 'identical' signal 
>> content will be just different enough to create 'stereo' - read 
>> out-of-phase - effects when they are aligned.
>> 
>
> There is a distinct difference between electrical phasing and time
> allignment phasing based on the mechanical wavelengths of the sound
> waves. If you play two identical records on a pair of tables they can
> be fused to create a perfect common signal or phase reversed to cancel
> 100%. If the cancellation cannot be achieved, there does have to be a
> difference. Differences in flatness of frequency curves -- such as in
> two different cutter heads in a 1 and 1-A pair of masters -- might
> change the levels at which any particular frequency will be heard in one
> recording vs. another, but if they are both fed from the same source
> they will cancel noticably. All wavelengths will be time-alligned even
> if there are slight level differences at different frequencies. If they
> were fed by different mics are at different locations from each other,
> they will not cancel. (They might cancel if the different mics were in
> a co-incidental array with each other, a distinct possibility in England
> because that was one of Blumlein's stereo arrays. Quite possibly his
> stereo tests recorded with this array might phase cancel despite us
> knowing that they ARE stereo.) 
>
> Try talking into two combined phase-reversed microphones that are right
> together in the same vertical plane in front of you. Even though there
> are mechanical differences between any two microphones, the cancellation
> is almost complete, compromised only by frequency flatness differences. 
> Then move ONE of the mics further away from you so that there is a time
> differential. Electrical equalization will not bring the mics back into
> cancellation because some frequencies will be hitting the mics sooner or
> later than the other at a different rate based on wavelength of the
> frequencies. I am not sure what will happen with time delay of one the
> channels -- you might be able to get back to cancellation if the mics
> are only a foot or two in front and back of each other -- but the
> further apart and aside the mics are from each other, the less likely
> the two can be recombined. Add in several voices or instruments coming
> from different locations, and the two mics can't be combined
> out-of-phase to cancel. 
>
> 
>> Even sources recorded in separate channels on the same carrier can
>> prove problematic: when EMI engineers tried using digital delay on
>> their earliest two-track staggered-head Stereosonic' tapes, they
>> discovered that they couldn't entirely overcome HF comb filtering.
>> 
>
> Why does everybody now seem to think that digital is the perfect answer
> to everything??? Did they try the "old fashioned" way where they could
> adjust mechanical azimuith on two separate heads?? As I have stated
> here before, the head separation on some Otari models between the record
> and reproduce heads is identical to the original staggered standard. I
> have a few of Robert Oakes Jordan's masters that sounded fine this way. 
>
>
> There are also phase problems with the 1956 Fantasia stereo transfers
> because they were done thru phone lines from Burbank to Hollywood, but
> there is no doubt that they are rather effective stereo. It is why the
> DVDs offer a separate mono soundtrack because the stereo can't really be
> properly combined to mono. 
>
> 
>> As for undiscovered stereo, the late Tony Griffith told me without 
>> qualification that there was no such thing - in other words, a fantasy.
>> Mike
>> 
>
> Yes, I have him on videotape saying that, but he also said that he based
> his claim on what he had been told years earlier by an oldtimer because
> he himself had not been there. At that point he had not done any
> personal listening or first hand research. I don't have my file where I
> am now, but a couple of books I was reading a few months ago gave some
> specific quotes from session sheets and memos from the time citing quite
> the opposite. I'll try to dig that up when I get back in a few weeks. 
>
> Try an experiment with re-creating accidental stereo. Make two
> recordings on two separate machines from one mic feeding both. Then do
> it with a different mic in a different location feeding the second
> machine. You will be able to combine the two recording machines
> out-of-phase to cancel when they are fed by the same mic but you will
> not be able to do it for the recording with the two machines being fed
> by different mics in a different location. 
>
> It is THIS test that can prove if any 1 and 1-A master are fed from the
> same or different mics. From what I see on the videotape, Griffith had
> not done these tests but that a very uneasy Gerald Plano sitting next to
> him had (on an oscilloscope, I think).
>
> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>
>
> Michael Biel wrote:
> 
>> From: Mike Gray <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>> 
>>> For "left" / "right" to produce 'binaural' would require two entirely
>>> independent microphone mixers feeding two separate disc-cutters. 
>>> Anything else is a fantasy. Mike Gray
>>>
>>> 
>> Since Stokowski had already participated in many stereophonic recording
>> sessions since the early 30s, there is a high likelyhood that these ARE
>> stereo recordings. The proof would be on Cala 551, of course. But also
>> consider, recording in multiple "angles" was common practice in several
>> Hollywood movie studios by the late 30s. 
>>
>> On another related note, while you have certainly far more experience
>> with the EMI archives than I, I have been reading recently that
>> paperwork there DO indicate some recordings made in what is now termed
>> "accidental stereo" despite their protestations to the contrary in the
>> 80s.
>>
>> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Dave Lewis wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Edward Johnson, in his notes for Cala 551, "Stokowski Beethoven Symphony
>>> No. 7 and Other First Stereo Releases on CD" states:
>>>
>>> "In 2004, Anthony Fountain, Classical Archivist at Sony Music Studios in
>>> New York, found many lacquer masters that Stokowski and the All American
>>> Youth Orchestra had recorded in Hollywood after their 1941 summer tour.
>>> The most significant part of the discovery was that all the recordings
>>> were made in duplicate, with each pair of discs labeled "Left" and
>>> "Right" respectively. [...] It was an exciting discovery and the Leopold
>>> Stokowski Society wished to license a complete CD of these AAYO
>>> 'binaural' recordings. However, the Sony powers-that-be decided that
>>> such a discovery should appear on their own label instead, along with
>>> any other records of the period that had been recorded binaurally. These
>>> included the Stravinsky/New York Philharmonic sets of the early 1940s in
>>> which the composer conducted his own 'Rite of Spring' and other works
>>> [...] However, it all came to nought in 2006 when the senior executives
>>> in charge were dismissed due to the poor sales of both their new and
>>> historic releases. The Stokowski/AAYO lacquers were sent off for storage
>>> and the transferring equipment dismantled, so it seems that the
>>> opportunity for hearing more of these historic recordings binaurally
>>> has, tragically, now gone."
>>>
>>> Okay - I'm assuming that these notes, published with the final Stokowski
>>> Society release that appeared in November, speak the truth. But just
>>> last week I heard a Sony producer protesting on NPR that "people should
>>> not take it on themselves and reissue classic recordings. First we have
>>> to locate the original master recording, then we have to find the legal
>>> holder of the performance rights, etc." The NPR commentator added that
>>> Sony has transferred about 10,000 classic recordings since 1994 or so,
>>> but is doing so in the face of the realization that only minimal
>>> financial gain is likely to be made in such endeavor.
>>>
>>> However, if they have "dismantled" [...] "the transferring equipment"
>>> then all that the Sony producer said is mere bluster; one has to assume
>>> that they aren't doing any of that kind of work now, based on what is
>>> said in the Stokowski notes. Who is telling the truth? 
>>>
>>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis Assistant Editor, Classical Rovi Corporation
>>>
>>>


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 18:48:39 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Loudness Wars - NPR story

I remember chewing up money and stuffing it in my ears at a Ten Years 
After concert; I could feel the bones in my middle ear being pulverized.
Not fun. Great music, though. I recalled the description of loud music 
from Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
 
Frank Strauss wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>   
>> The last really loud show I went to was Johnny Winter playing in  small
>> venue in upstate NY. I was very thankful for earplugs because it allowed me
>> to get right up on the edge of the stage and watch a somewhat diminished but
>> still competent Johnny do his stuff with that funky little guitar he plays.
>> His blaring amp was right next to his chair, but the earplugs cut the blare
>> right out so I could hear his guitar work. My friend who was foolish and
>> didn't wear earplugs said his ears were still ringing a week later.
>>
>> I'll put $.02 in as a dentist and a long term snare drummer in a bagpipe
>>     
> band.  The dental thing and old age have pretty much wasted my high
> frequency response, but I have tried really hard to wear ear protection
> while playing with the band.  I have used several different versions of the
> compressible foam ear plugs, to good effect.  I and a lot of pipe band
> people use an ear protector from the Etymotic company called the ETY.  It is
> a step above the foam ear plugs and is in the $10-15 range.  I always bring
> a bag of extra foam plugs to indoor practices and performances, and push
> real hard for anyone who will (can) listen, especially the young and
> foolish, to use them.  Tom-you are absolutely right-I went to a Sting
> concert many years ago, and used foam protectors.  It was incredibly
> enjoyable to actually hear the words.
>
>
>   


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:30:44 -0800
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: afrs 16" discs - Boston Symphony info needed

There are no catalog numbers per se. The AFRS discs were generally labeled
with the series name and program number.
 
These are labeled:
 
"BOSTON SYMPHONY" Number 38, parts 1 through 4
 
Matrix numbers:
 
Part 1: SS-3-4-5
Part 2: SS-3-4-6
Part 3: SS-3-4-7
Part 4: SS-3-4-8
 
Also etched on the discs is the program name and number, and the timing of
each side.
 
Often discs in this series have an etched date, but these do not have that.
 
No contents are listed on the labels.
 
--Kevin Mostyn
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Thomas Stern
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:23 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ARSCLIST] afrs 16" discs - Boston Symphony info needed
 
Can someone provide matrix nos./catalog numbers for the following:
 
Armed Forces Radio Service, Boston Symphony No. 38 [16 inch, vinyl, 2 discs,
4 sides].
GRETCHANINOV: Ecumenical Mass, opus 174   1944/02/26
 
label scan would also be very useful.
 
Thanks!
Best wishes, Thomas.


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:35:13 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Media Timeline - Death of music business

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
>I also think that removing a "farm system" and "tastemakers" may be 
>considered more "democratic,"
> but it leads to a big pile of junk clogging access to the few nuggets of 
> talent. Who CARES if you
> now have instant access to a zillion options of low-talent garbage made in 
> people's basements? It's
> not useful in finding talent, it's just a way to waste time listening to 
> the rabble. Back in the
> day, there was a "farm system" where people honed their sound and their 
> musical skill BEFORE they
> ever got in front of a recording mic. This involved a lot of live 
> performing, in church or in clubs
> or in school productions or at community centers, etc. For 
> classically-trained musicians, it
> required years of lessons and solitary practice. Then there were "filters" 
> or "taste makers," A&R
> folks at the record companies -- music nuts who had ears for what a mass 
> audience would appreciate,
> or a niche audience (hence regional/specialty records). The point was, 
> even a mediocre A&R man would
> reject a talentless bunch of rank amateurs. Nowadays, these amateurs can 
> be "YouTube Stars" the
> first time they pick up instruments and make a stupid video with a 
> cellphone. Now how is that
> helpful to people serious about music? There's too little talent out 
> there, too much non-serious
> presentation, and when "American Idol" passes for taste-making, you know 
> the end is upon the music
> business!
>
I would date this as starting post-WWII...from that point onward, anyone who 
had the money
could go to a recording studio (there were countless independent operations) 
and cut a couple
of sides! In earlier days, records were only cut by record labels/companies 
(although it WAS
possible to make "personal" recordings...!). From c.1946 onward, there were 
MANY bad
performances recorded...fortunately, most were never heard other than 
locally!
 
Then again we DID have to suffer "Fabian"...?!
 
Steven C. Barr 
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Use Hotmail to send and receive mail from your different email accounts
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