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ARSCLIST  August 2010

ARSCLIST August 2010

Subject:

Re: help: 16MM mag sound film

From:

Corey Bailey <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:37:45 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (108 lines)

Hi All,

17.5 mm was mostly a European format most popular in Germany and  
France. I?ve seen some Italian & Hebrew foreign dubs on 17.5 but not  
as much as the other two. Thus, most of the 17.5 I have encountered is  
PAL with a few NTSC exceptions for elements made for the US market.  
All of the 17.5 I have encountered runs at film speed be it NTSC or  
PAL and virtually all of it is single track Mono. I never understood  
the rationale for this format because it?s just as easy to flip a 35mm  
fullcoat element and record it the other way which is known as  
?UP-Down?. I?ve encountered numerous domestic masters from the late  
50?s and early 60?s recorded this way. 35mm Optical Sound Negatives  
were recorded this way as well for this same time period as were  
several foreign Sound Negatives and Sound Positives known as ?SOP? for  
Sound Only Positive.

Tim Wilson wrote:
<Snip>
?FYI, 16mm single tracks can be oriented either in the center of the fullcoat
mag or towards the edge, depending on what kind of record head  was used.  You
may see it referred to as 1-track center or 1-track edge.?
<Snip>

?1-track edge? on 16mm is actually a Mono track recorded on track 1  
using a 2 track record head. Yes, 16mm comes in both Mono and 2 track.  
If 16mm Mag is recorded as ?1-track edge? it generally won?t play with  
a center track head although you will sometimes get some fringing  
indicating that you?ve got something on the Mag. Using a Mag viewer  
will quickly tell you what you have. I?ve transferred hundreds of  
reels of 16mm fullcoat recorded in both formats, domestic and foreign.  
2 track 16mm was a favorite delivery format from France for foreign  
dubbed TV shows that originated in the US as stereo program.

Some interesting trivia regarding 35mm Mag is that Single & Three  
stripe Mag were uniquely US formats. Heads were specially made for  
these two formats because the wear pattern was different than  
fullcoat. In Europe, fullcoat was used for everything. In the UK, Mono  
program was recorded on track 1 of the standard three track format.  
Stereo masters (referred to as SVA for Stereo Variable Area) were  
recorded on tracks two & three so as not to confuse program with Mono.  
In the US, particularly in Hollywood, Stereo masters (Printmasters)  
were typically recorded on tracks 1 & 2. The reason for this is that  
track 1 on a Magnatech film transport was closest to the deck plate so  
tighter azimuth could be maintained on tracks 1 & 2.

Cheers!

Corey
Corey Bailey Audio Engineering



Quoting Roderic G Stephens <[log in to unmask]>:

> In double checking, the 17.5mm mag generally ran at 45ft/min (half  
> 35mm speed) on those dubbing stages of the past.
> Rod
>
> --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] help: 16MM mag sound film
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 1:46 PM
>
> 35mm actually allows up to 6 tracks on full-coat, with many other varients:
> http://frank.mtsu.edu/~smpte/table.html
> I've seen one-track, 3-track, 4-track and 6-track 35mm mag-film  
> recorders and dubbers.
>
> I've never seen a 16mm full-coat mag-film, just 17.5mm. I'm sure  
> 16mm exists, I'm just not sure of any standard formats as far as  
> tracks. I assume single-track was definitely an option.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderic G Stephens"  
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] help: 16MM mag sound film
>
>
> Hi Shai,
> In my experience, there is usually just one track on 16mm fullcoat.  
> 35mm fullcoat allows room and width for three tracks or stripes if  
> it's been coated that way.
> Rod Stephens
>
> --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: [ARSCLIST] help: 16MM mag sound film
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 12:49 PM
>
> Does anyone have information about the standard used to record audio  
> on 16mm full coat film. A project came in where the audio for the  
> film is on full coat 16mm and I wonder how many tracks could there  
> be or how many formats. Any info or links will be appreciated.
> Shai
>



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