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ARSCLIST  December 2010

ARSCLIST December 2010

Subject:

Re: audio on Betacam sp tapes

From:

Matt Sohn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:55:22 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (164 lines)

I was going to say that it might be fun to try as an
experiment, I bet you'd get great high end if you biased
right, as an "effect".
One friend that I work with on a casual basis insists on
recording his vocals on a 4-track cassette recorder with DBX
engaged, then he plays it back unencoded. he calls it
"Anti-DBX", and loves the way it pokes through the mix.

-Matt Sohn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shai Drori" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] audio on Betacam sp tapes


> Thank you. Now here is someone with youth in him. ;-)
>
> On 12/9/2010 5:15 PM, George Brock-Nannestad wrote:
>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> oh, dear, oh dear, what happened to simple curiosity? It
>> does not cost any of
>> the responding archives anything to wait and see and to
>> learn from Shai's
>> experience. I can well understand that computer tapes may
>> not work on
>> machines for rotating heads, but the other way round? I
>> would not expect
>> squeal, because the audio track on video cassetes is
>> linear, close to the
>> edge. For this reason, bias adjustments for the audio
>> track may be relevant
>> information.
>>
>> I had expected some positive remarks and at the most some
>> "bear-in-mind"s,
>> but this negativity? After all, the tape will wrap better
>> than ordinary audio
>> tape.
>>
>> Go to "The Complete Handbook of Magnetic Recording" by
>> Finn Jorgensen to find
>> documentation of the various properties and also
>> theoretical explanations. He
>> will not talk back. I only have the 3rd edition, but I
>> believe there is at
>> least one more recent out there.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>> Shai Drori wrote:
>>
>>> I am aware of that. I am not seeking a better sound.
>>> Some of my clients
>>> like to go through tape to add certain color to their
>>> mix (sometimes
>>> ugly color too). I keep different stocks of tape and
>>> different recorders
>>> for that purpose. I was just wondering if this will be
>>> another color on
>>> my palette. Because the tape is so different I was
>>> wondering if anyone
>>> has ever tried it. Metal tape has needs and I wonder if
>>> one of my
>>> machines (atr-100) could be aligned for it. I'm not sure
>>> it can even
>>> erase such a tape. re spooling will be easy.
>>> Shai
>>>
>>> On 12/9/2010 4:01 AM, Hood, Mark wrote:
>>>> There are significant differences in the magnetic
>>>> performance
>>> characteristics of tape manufactured for different
>>> purposes.
>>>> The magnetic particles in the oxide coating are
>>>> needle-shaped as a result
>>> of careful milling. During the manufacturing process,
>>> the needles are
>>> oriented by an external magnetic field while the oxide
>>> slurry is still
>>> liquid. On tape intended for video recording, the
>>> particles are oriented
>>> for maximum rententivity when recorded and played back
>>> by heads travelling
>>> in a helical scanning pattern. This is a different
>>> orientation than that
>>> imposed in magnetic tape designed for optimal
>>> performance on analog audio
>>> tape recorders. As a result, attempting to record
>>> analog audio signals
>>> longitudinally on media designed for analog video
>>> recording in a helical
>>> scanning pattern will likely result is less than optimal
>>> results.
>>>> Mark Hood
>>>> Project Audio Engineer
>>>> Sound Directions
>>>> IU Archives of Traditional Music
>>>>
>>>> On 12/8/10 6:20 PM, "James
>>>> Snyder"<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I know this has been discussed before but has anyone
>>>>> actually tried
>>>>> to use Betacm SP tapes as audio tapes on pro reel to
>>>>> reel machines
>>>>> (Sony apr, Ampex atr, etc)? I know it's a metal tape
>>>>> but can one of
>>>>> these machines be adjusted to use this tape? At 15ips
>>>>> it should
>>>>> sound good if the machine can be aligned to it, no?
>>>>> Shai
>>>> 1. My first question is 'why would you want to?' You
>>>> can still buy
>>>> 1/2" tape for audio.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Your going to take the time to unspool the tape from
>>>> the small hub
>>>> tape reels onto an audio tape reel? That strikes me as
>>>> labor
>>>> intensive and prone to damage the tape.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Videotape is not audiotape. One of the reasons the
>>>> tape is put
>>>> into cassettes is that it is much thinner and more
>>>> fragile than
>>>> audiotape. Thinness allows long tape lengths to fit in
>>>> small
>>>> cassettes. It also allows the tape path to be
>>>> maintained much more
>>>> precisely.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Metal videotape is designed for much different
>>>> frequency
>>>> characteristcs than audiotape. Audiotape is formulated
>>>> for audio
>>>> frequencies + a bias frquency (for analog) or a digital
>>>> signal with
>>>> bias for digital. Videotape is designed for a minimum
>>>> of 13.5 MHz of
>>>> frequency response from SPINNING HEADS travelling at
>>>> 1500 ips+
>>>> diagonally across the tape. The two are VERY different
>>>> types of
>>>> recordings.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine it could work, but I don't imagine it would
>>>> sound as good
>>>> as you think it would, and would be more trouble than
>>>> its worth.
>>>>
>>>> James
>>>>

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