LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  January 2011

ARSCLIST January 2011

Subject:

Re: DATs DELETED but not LPs (was: 15/16 Recording Speed)

From:

George Brock-Nannestad <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:01:01 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (297 lines)

From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad


Hello,

in a way I am sick and tired of seeing CompactCassettes being slammed all the 
time. I will accept the slamming in case you have a choice between (European) 
vinyl pressings, CCs and CD's, but if you do not have a choice they were 
sufficiently good that they sold well. I still remember my copy of Pictures 
from an Exhibition on CC bought in Washington, D.C. in 1983 and which 5 years 
later had developed sticky something so that it would no longer play. That is 
the only one that has ever given me trouble. 

The CC was the most democratic and practical medium of all times: it was 
recordable and playable from its inception in 1962-63. It was only when they 
came up with Chromium Tape or Metal Tape or double speed in your mastering 
kit that troubles began. Fe (Type 1) never gave trouble; they were/are 
dependable, and the C90 was and still is a fine format for innumerable 
purposes. A lot of minor label (well, you might not even call them labels) 
distribution was exclusively on CC; certain types were only sold in gas 
stations, and for instance a lot of contemporary Italian folk music 
(something I used to know a bit about) was only available that way. I believe 
that it is the same in many small musical genres. And the format is still 
used; dusty tropical environments somehow are not as hard on the fairly 
coarse mechanics of CC players as on CD players. The machines are stand-
alone; you do not need fancy computer programmes, USB ports, etc. to operate 
them.

I know that this excellent medium is giving archives and transfer 
organisations a hard time; it is fiddly to repair leader break at the hub or 
at the splice to the magnetic tape. But the sheer breadth of material, wow. I 
have lots of conference tapes, some I have made myself, others I have bought 
off the conference tape duplicator. I have lots of broadcasts. I have Tom 
Lehrer from his Copenhagen visit when he played the "Copenhagen version" of 
"the Elements". All of this will eventually be digitized to facilitate my 
personal access. But I could have lived well with just analogue CC equipment 
for 95% of my personal entertainment needs. For professional requirements and 
5% of entertainment I obviously need state of the art equipment.

The shellac record had a similar simple appeal, but for distribution only. 
For a long period, 1925-50 (and in the UK and Dominions) it was optimised for 
reproduction on a portable gramophone: acoustic and wind-up: not even a need 
for electricity. You would get 50-100 plays out of it and could still enjoy 
it towards the end of its useful service life. 

No, I truly get tired of the ideal being the enemy of the sufficient.

Kind regards,


George

--------------------------------------


> And, not only backing up Steve's point but adding to it ...
> 
> When CD's came along the industry DID SUPPORT TWO FORMATS, for YEARS.
> Mass-duped cassettes outsold 
> CD's until into the 1990's, ten years of side-by-side sales until CD's
> finally won out. Anyone who 
> ever deal with those awful-sounding cassettes probably rejoiced with me when
> cheap portable and car 
> CD players came along, and soon after that cassettes faded into the
> sunset.
> 
> I like LPs as much as the next collector of them, but the quality control on
> CDs was so much better, 
> from Day 1. You bought the things, and they reliably worked in all your
> players. They weren't 
> hopelessly warped, pressed off-center, made of crackly garbage vinyl, etc.
> And of course they beat 
> the mass-duped cassettes hands-down, as did all but the worst LPs.
> 
> -- Tom Fine
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steven Smolian" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] DATs DELETED but not LPs (was: 15/16 Recording
> Speed)
> 
> 
> > >From the days of the Muntz 4track, later 8 track until the CD, the
> record
> > business was running at least two and, often, three "successful" formats
> and inventories 
> > simultaneously, an extra expense to all..
> >
> > One point, often overlooked, is that the CD offered high quality and
> portablilty. The financially 
> > beneficial advantage of the CD was that it streamlined the entire
> distribution chain, cutting 
> > costs significantly.
> >
> > Now 4G allows higher quality downoads much more quickly than 3G.
> >
> > Downloading, to the rights owner, means the need to manufacture a phyiscal
> object is remeved, 
> > hence the closing of the Sony facility.
> >
> > These business folks are in it to make money.  We depend on them for our
> recorded music.  We'd all 
> > be a lot poorer (and this list would be much less active) without them.
> >
> > Steve Smolian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] DATs DELETED but not LPs (was: 15/16 Recording
> Speed)
> >
> >
> >>I don't see any great "conspiracy" in the practices described by Schwann
> regarding LPs. The record 
> >>companies had invested a great deal of money in CD production and
> manufacturing, and the simple 
> >>fact was the CDs could be replicated in a manner where very few were
> returned for quality defects 
> >>(unlike late-era LPs, especially when sold to picky buyers in the
> remaining small stores), and 
> >>also everyone saw the advantage to getting the consumers to buy CD players
> and CDs so they would 
> >>move away from cassettes as soon as cheap/plentiful car and portable CD
> players hit the market. 
> >>Again, tape duplication was not a great business. The CD plants could,
> with some good training and 
> >>QC procedures, turn out reliably uniform copies millions of times if
> needed. No more fussy ancient 
> >>stamping equipment, messy vinyl compounds and, even worse than that, tape
> duplicating nightmares. 
> >>The win-win that made all of this inevitable was that consumers could be
> re-sold their entire 
> >>music collection in this fab new format. If the industry had been this
> business-minded earlier 
> >>this century, they might have gotten yet another bite at the consumers
> when the masses started 
> >>moving to downloads. Instead, they stupidly left a void where Napster
> filled in and it's been 
> >>downhill ever since. The worst is, it was clear where all of this was
> going as soon as the first 
> >>"ripping" software appear in the 90's, and definitely as soon as CD copier
> burners because 
> >>ubiquitous.
> >>
> >> Anyway, the initial CD rollout was a time of phat and happy profits for
> the record biz.
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Michael Biel" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 7:14 PM
> >> Subject: [ARSCLIST] DATs DELETED but not LPs (was: 15/16 Recording
> Speed)
> >>
> >>
> >>> John -- apology accepted, especially since I am a fan of Chance!
> >>>
> >>> On 1/12/2011 6:17 PM, Scott wrote:
> >>>> I have often wondered if modern technology might recover some of the
> lost
> >>>> audio....    Scott
> >>>
> >>> You're not the only one, and I think they had another look at the tapes
> a couple of years ago, 
> >>> but the "Rose Mary Woods Stretch" was a bit too efficient.  By the way,
> that famous photo had an 
> >>> amusing use on the cover of the August 1989 Schwann CD catalog under the
> headline "EXTRA! DATs 
> >>> DELETED!!!"  They had decided to give up on the viability of the
> pre-recorded DAT and CD-3 
> >>> formats, and the editor said in removing the listings this position was
> no less awkward than was 
> >>> Ms. Woods'.  The also printed a 1971 letter she had written them on
> White House stationery 
> >>> giving Nixon's thanks for a copy of the catalog.
> >>>
> >>> Of added interest they next included a commentary "Vanishing Vinyl (...
> or the short run 
> >>> prospects of the long-playing record)".  With insider evidence, they
> accuse the industry of 
> >>> market manipulation by deleting popular LP series that were selling well
> and instituting 
> >>> disadvantageous non-return policies for retailers.  "Although the CD
> revolution has been -- to 
> >>> some extent --  consumer-driven, the LP decline has been, to a degree,
> industry manipulated." 
> >>> They pledged to continue listing LPs and cassettes in their quarterly
> Schwann guide.
> >>>
> >>> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> >>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Spencer
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:12 PM
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] 15/16 Recording Speed
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike,
> >>>>
> >>>> I truly value your contribution to this list and your long-standing
> >>>> knowledge of recorded history, and I have enjoyed reading your posts
> for
> >>>> years. I felt as the last paragraph in your post was somewhat off topic
> and
> >>>> that prompted my post.
> >>>>
> >>>> In retrospect it was most likely a knee-jerk response, because to this
> day I
> >>>> still can't understand all of the reasoning/ logic (or lack of therein)
> and
> >>>> other motives that created these recordings - it simply baffles my mind
> (and
> >>>> even though I'm old, I wasn't old enough to vote for Nixon, so there is
> no
> >>>> love lost...).
> >>>>
> >>>> I too know several individuals involved with the playback/ recovery of
> the
> >>>> Nixon tapes and find the work (and their work environment) a case study
> in
> >>>> archival education.
> >>>>
> >>>> My sincere apologies to you, I had no idea that you also played a hand
> in
> >>>> the recording/ playback/ restoration of these tapes. As they begin to
> come
> >>>> to light in the Nixon Library, I'm hugely interested in what is
> presented to
> >>>> the public.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> John Spencer
> >>>> www.bmschace.com
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jan 12, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Michael Biel wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 1/12/2011 2:23 PM, George Brock-Nannestad wrote:
> >>>>>> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> beauty is in the eye of the beholder as is the experience of
> >>>>>> politically loaded information.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike mentioned these tapes, because they are some of the
> technically
> >>>>>> best documented in modern history. This is pure documentation, and
> no
> >>>>>> mention of the need to obtain it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> George
> >>>>> Thank you, George.  John, I RESENT your implication that there was
> >>>> ANYTHING political in my mentioning the Nixon tapes because a close
> friend
> >>>> designed and installed the replay equipment used on these tapes, I have
> seen
> >>>> that set-up (George might have been there too), a number of other
> friends of
> >>>> mine have been involved over the  years in the technical analysis of
> the
> >>>> tapes AND SOME OF THEM ARE ON THIS LIST.
> >>>>> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>> John Spencer wrote (why?):
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Perhaps you could google for an answer to your question below
> >>>>>>> without inserting a political slant to the list-serve that has
> >>>>>>> nothing to do with what the original question was posed about?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> John Spencer
> >>>>>>> www.bmschace.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Jan 12, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Michael Biel wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Did the Nixon White House tapes use it?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> > 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager