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ARSCLIST  January 2011

ARSCLIST January 2011

Subject:

Re: RIP rock n roll

From:

Aaron Levinson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:34:17 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (245 lines)

Tom-

That is a great idea! I'm sure it would be a huge hit with people of all
ages.They could even license some classic juke profiles of yore... You
could then take a video output and send it to a flat screen and have
almost life size version in your living room for parties! Now if only
you solved where to put the coin slot...

I wish I was a coder.

AA


On 1/4/11 10:10 AM, Tom Fine wrote:
> Has anyone made a plug-in or "skin" for iTunes that makes it act like
> a vintage jukebox? If not, they should. Imagine loading your favorite
> tunes from all those Rhino compilations, or picking the best from
> over-thorough "retrospectives" of good but not great artists and
> building your own jukebox, that you can plug into speakers when you're
> entertaining or can enjoy through your headphones. The standard iTunes
> interface can kinda do this with "cover-flow," but not really, at best
> it acts like a 1990's CD jukebox.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Music Hunter"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] RIP rock n roll
>
>
>> Our experience has been that the reissue labels generate a lot of
>> business for us, especially with our library accounts.
>>
>> Sometimes folks have missed a title the 1st time around, or others
>> want to replace beaten up copies.
>>
>> Your search for sound & video ends here!
>>
>> Jay Sonin, General Manager
>> Music Hunter Distributing Company
>> 25-58 34th Street, Suite # 2
>> Astoria, NY 11103-4902
>> [log in to unmask]
>> 718-777-1949
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fine"
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 8:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] RIP rock n roll
>>
>>
>>> Hi David:
>>>
>>> I hear what you're saying, but I've often been disappointed by
>>> amateurish "garage" bands. There have been some gems over the years,
>>> and indeed Rhino, Sundazed and others have made an honest living
>>> mining the vaults. Having been raised with a lot of classical and
>>> jazz music, I expect a decent level of musicianship from rock and
>>> blues artists. Many fall short, but when that exciting music is
>>> combined with excellent musicianship, even on "simple" music like
>>> was played by Buddy Holly and Elvis Presely, it's a beautiful thing.
>>> Even back in my youth, I was often disappointed by how poorly my
>>> favorite rock bands performed in a live setting. But, there were
>>> some wonderful surprises. When tickets cost a couple dozen dollars
>>> max, it was OK to go and check many out and wait for the few
>>> surprises. At hundreds of dollars, forget it. As for small-venue
>>> live music, there is none out here in the 'burbs, just really
>>> amateurish cover bands here and there. Also, the loudness level that
>>> rock and blues are typically performed precludes me going anywhere
>>> near these live venues without heavy ear protection. I can't afford
>>> to lose any hearing by my own doing, time and nature are doing it to
>>> me beyond my control.
>>>
>>> One other thing, with the collapse of the record business, playing
>>> arenas actually IS a pre-requisite to the kind of success that was
>>> the norm in previous times. And it's expected of any band being
>>> given any upfront money by what's left of the "major companies" in a
>>> "360 deal".
>>>
>>> I'm really happy that finally some critics called the hand of these
>>> dinosaurs on the mailed-in performances and high ticket prices. I
>>> saw the Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson minor-league ballpark tour a few
>>> years ago and they were both mailing it in back then. At least you
>>> could understand what Willie was singing, and even though it was
>>> basically the same show he had been doing for 20 years, he still did
>>> it well. Dylan was unintelligable and the band behind him was sloppy
>>> and inept. And it was so loud that it was ear-damaging even with
>>> protective foam in. We left soon after he started "performing." Hint
>>> to aging rockers -- when you need to "fill out" your band with
>>> people younger than your children in order to produce enough noise
>>> to hold attention in a stadium, it's time to retire. I would argue
>>> that the typical trappings of a rock performance get ridiculous when
>>> you get into your 40's and are outright embarassing when you're
>>> eligable for Medicare. It's a young man's game, know the rules and
>>> play by them.
>>>
>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 7:52 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] RIP rock n roll
>>>
>>>
>>>> Tom,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sending. It *is* thought-provoking, though like you I
>>>> would have
>>>> said around 2000 the well was already dry. In response, though, I
>>>> would say
>>>> that you can sidestep the arena experience altogether by checking
>>>> out bands
>>>> that never made it to that level. A fair number of those groups
>>>> have done so
>>>> by choice and still put on a mighty good show. Playing arena shows
>>>> is not a
>>>> pre-requisite to artistic success in rock music, and the very idea
>>>> that this
>>>> is so is one of the many elements that helped to doom the form at
>>>> the top
>>>> level. However, the band traveling in a car, playing for $100
>>>> guarantees and
>>>> a portion of the door remains a sustainable business model. Groups
>>>> willing
>>>> to put up with such discomfort are doing so because they want to
>>>> have an
>>>> audience for their work, and sometimes this means better music,
>>>> though it is
>>>> not neccessarily an attraction for those who feel they've had their
>>>> needs
>>>> met, somewhere along the way, by the 50-plus-year heritage of rock
>>>> music.
>>>>
>>>> One thing he didn't address was that in the 1980s there was a shift
>>>> between
>>>> supply and demand; in the 1960s, demand was high and supply was
>>>> such that
>>>> just about anyone claiming to be a pop musician could make records
>>>> and even
>>>> get signed to at least middle-level recording deals; certainly not
>>>> all were,
>>>> but the possibility was there. While front office types have always
>>>> had a
>>>> hand in cultivating to some extent what gets recorded, the grass roots
>>>> artist pool still enjoyed a lot of freedom and were, for the most
>>>> part, left
>>>> alone to create what they wanted. This became somewhat jaundiced in
>>>> the
>>>> 1970s, with artists doing double-live LPs no one wanted and
>>>> utilizing other
>>>> strategies to get out of their record contracts, not to mention
>>>> throwing
>>>> huge parties in order to celebrate the release of albums that
>>>> ultimately
>>>> wound up in the cutout bins. These excesses delivered huge losses
>>>> to the pop
>>>> music industry and even brought down a major player, ABC, in 1978. The
>>>> record companies became far more careful afterward.
>>>>
>>>> The majors, at least, were not successful in dealing
>>>> with emerging grass roots trends around 1980 and decided instead to
>>>> cultivate their own pop artists, with MTV taking a major role in
>>>> getting
>>>> this out to the masses, a calculated plan to divest the business of
>>>> radio
>>>> and to control trends in pop music. Then you had artists at the
>>>> grass roots
>>>> cultivating their own plans to create something that would appeal
>>>> to the
>>>> suits at the record companies. That the form got diluted, and
>>>> stale, was
>>>> inevitable. The re-emergence of the grass roots style of 1980 that
>>>> came
>>>> along in 1991 or so only helped to temporarily stave off rock's
>>>> eventual
>>>> bust. Add to that the killing off of the common single -- a format
>>>> in which
>>>> people could enjoy a hit in a manner convenient and inexpensive to
>>>> them --
>>>> and you have the golden goose with its entrails hanging out of it.
>>>> As Carl
>>>> Sandburg once put it, "The lawyers, Bob, they know too much..."
>>>>
>>>> David "Uncle Dave" Lewis
>>>> Lebanon, OH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 6:48 AM, Tom Fine
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.jazzwax.com/2011/01/rock-and-roll-1949-2011.html
>>>>>
>>>>> even if you don't agree with all of this essay, it's
>>>>> thought-provoking. I
>>>>> would have written an obit for anything new and original called
>>>>> rock music
>>>>> 10 years ago, but Meyers makes a good point that the Geriatric
>>>>> Stadium Tours
>>>>> (some actually sponsored by Viagara) kept filling the coffers and
>>>>> thus kept
>>>>> rock in a living-dead zombie state for an extra decade.
>>>>> Personally, I find
>>>>> 60+ rockers spilling out of their spandex and limping around a
>>>>> stadium with
>>>>> tickets costing over $100 more pathetic than all the poseurs and
>>>>> copy-cats
>>>>> making up the "new" performers in the genre. At least a few of the
>>>>> "new"
>>>>> performers are good musicians, worth listening to on that point
>>>>> alone. Rock
>>>>> is definitely a young man's game, but two generations of young men
>>>>> (and
>>>>> women) have dropped the ball and just fed off the old carcass. My
>>>>> theory --
>>>>> rock got suburbanized and where is there any drama or struggle in
>>>>> a suburban
>>>>> experience, so therefore no cause for new and rebelious musical
>>>>> directions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those of us who love rock and jazz, and for that matter blues, and
>>>>> lament
>>>>> the death of anything new and original in any of those genres can
>>>>> at least
>>>>> revel in the fact that all three styles lived all or most of their
>>>>> lives in
>>>>> the era of recordings and almost every "for the ages" song was
>>>>> captured on a
>>>>> musically-satisfying recording at some point. I have enough CDs,
>>>>> LPs and
>>>>> downloads to keep me rocking for the rest of my days, even if I'm
>>>>> keeping
>>>>> beat from a wheelchair.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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