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ARSCLIST  March 2011

ARSCLIST March 2011

Subject:

Re: Turnover and rolloff curves / Decca vertical/lateral World

From:

Dan Nelson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:39:11 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (181 lines)

thanks for the correction   i was going by what i saw happen in stations around LA in the late 40s when  RCA tables were being replaced. 
The last station that i remember had Gates CB14 tables with Gray 103lp transcription arms with the Gray  passive equalizer. 
My lateral World ets are all later i guess  some have printed red vertical labels and sleeves with "LATERAL" stamped across them. And some are actually printed LATERAL... 
dnelsonward


--- On Wed, 3/9/11, Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Turnover and rolloff curves / Decca vertical/lateral World
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 6:03 PM
> On 3/9/2011 6:15 PM, Dan Nelson
> wrote:
> > So true  but  the World laterals were later
> releases when many stations no longer had RCA or Gates
> turntables with  lat/vert  heads.
> 
> Nope.  I am talking about the 1930s BEFORE RCA made
> their 4875 three-ribbon Universal tone arm and when Gates
> only had lateral pickups on their turntables (I have their
> 1935 catalog).  RCA did make a separate arm, the
> AZ-4217-2 that could play verticals and you could attach it
> to the rear side of the turntable cabinet of the 70-A and
> 70-B tables.  The lateral AZ-4211-2 arm came mounted on
> the right side of the cabinet.  Stations with World
> licenses would use the ERPI tables which were essentially
> those removed from Vitaphone projectors with  Western
> Electric 5A replacement arms for vertical or the original 4A
> for lateral.  .
> 
> > Tone arms like the GE transcription arm with  GE
> VR cartridges were the first attempts to  up grade to
> higher fidelity and lighter tracking in  going to LP
> formats thus replacing the older heavy transcription arms.
> > Dnelsonward
> > 
> 
> Not true.  RCA immediately came out with a very slim
> lightweight tone arm, MI-11885, to be installed alongside
> the RCA 4875 universal arm on 70-C and -D tables, and came
> standard on 70 E.
> 
> World started with lateral transcriptions around 1930,
> added vertical around 1932 and continued to offer both until
> they dropped vertical in the early 50s and went
> microgroove.
> 
> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> > --- On Wed, 3/9/11, Michael Biel<[log in to unmask]> 
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Michael Biel<[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Turnover and rolloff
> curves / Decca vertical
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 11:33 AM
> >> On 3/9/2011 1:50 PM, Dan Nelson
> >> wrote:
> >>> Decca used the WE vertical mastering after
> they
> >> bought  World Broadcasting 
> transcription
> >> service.
> >>> World used Western Electric vertical cut disc
> for all
> >> their broadcast transcriptions because of its
> broader
> >> frequency response at the time over lateral
> discs.
> >> 
> >> Actually, not all of the World discs were
> vertical. Many were also
> >> available as laterals.  The verticals had red
> labels
> >> and the laterals
> >> had green labels.
> >> 
> >>> The vertical cut discs also were less prone to
> pick up
> >> surface scratches.
> >> 
> >> Until the mid-30s they also offered their
> pressings on
> >> either stiff
> >> vinyl or very floppy clay colored acetate -- real
> acetate,
> >> not
> >> misidentified lacquer -- this is the reason why so
> many
> >> radio people
> >> incorrectly call lacquers acetate.  You need
> to
> >> occasionally check the
> >> World acetates to make sure they don't smell
> vinegar. I've never come
> >> across a clay colored one that smelled vinegar but
> I have
> >> smelled it on
> >> clear and blue ones.  (Lacquers are cellulose
> nitrate,
> >> by the way, and
> >> if you call them anything but lacquers you could
> call then
> >> nitrates.)
> >>> I have many of the World transcriptions and
> they are a
> >> joy to listen to
> >>> dnelsonward
> >> I have a pair of test pressings of a 1935 program,
> one a
> >> vertical and
> >> the other a lateral of the exact same "take" of
> the
> >> program.  The
> >> lateral is very good but the vertical is
> FANTASTIC. Especially as it
> >> reaches the outer edge at the end of the program,
> the sound
> >> quality of
> >> the Graham McNamee announcement is breathtaking --
> and I am
> >> no fan of
> >> McNamee.  World and WE was claiming 13,000
> and 14,000
> >> cps. top ends as
> >> early as 1932 and 33.
> >> 
> >> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
> >> 
> >>> --- On Wed, 3/9/11, George
> Brock-Nannestad<[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>> From: George Brock-Nannestad<[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Turnover and
> rolloff
> >> curves for correct playback of 78 rpm records!
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 10:32 AM
> >>>> From: Patent Tactics, George
> >>>> Brock-Nannestad
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hi Mike,
> >>>> 
> >>>> your last statement
> >>>> 
> >>>>> Decca was using the Western Electric
> Wide
> >> Range
> >>>> Vertical Recording
> >>>>> system during the 1943-48 era.
> >>>> points to something I have suspected,
> however I
> >> have no
> >>>> source to confirm it.
> >>>> Do you have somewhere I could look?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Best wishes,
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> George
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]
> >>>> wrote
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 


      

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