On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:40:50 -0500, Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress wrote
> Once again I ask for an explanation of the requirement.
> I have two areas of confusion.
> First, the recent examples include, for example, "3rd Monday in Feb. 2011".
> Is this a real example? The third Monday in February of 2011 is a real
Why not. That date is not Washington's Birthday. His birthday is generally
given asdate is 22 Feb. We can't even speak of President's Day as that is
not its name in many states. It is also a bank holliday in Canada and they
do not even have Presidents :-)
> and can be represented as "2011-02-21". I had thought that you wanted to
And if it was that bank holliday in one of 2009, 2010 or 2011?
And while we are at it why not add moon to the set analogous to week + day?
Throw in alongside "intervals" (or precisions) for Seasons the Equinoxes,
Maxima (Mid-summer Soltice) and Minima (Mid-winter Soltice) we can pick up
quite a few named dates without using their cultural names..
If we use Month names Sept (09 or some other code) and March (03 or ..)
instead of Autumn and Spring we can even sidetrack the Hemisphere problem.
> represent "third Monday in February", independent of year, in order to
> represent a pattern, as in this case a particular US holiday, i.e. George
> Washington's Birthday, falls each year on the third Monday in February.
> Second (as Bruce has already asked) assuming you want to represrent "third
> Monday in February" why can't it be represented as the human readable
> 'third Monday in February', or '3rd Mon. in Feb'; i.e. why does it need to
> be normalized for computer readability? Can you provide a use case where
> machine readability is necessary?
I would like to have these for search and retrieval application-- for
example within SRU/W. I do not see them as being used to mark a date in a
record but as values for date in a search...
Give me the news that occured on U.S. Nov election day in 1984?
This could be quite useful in canned queries, facets, etc...
20uu-11-D12 are the first Tuesdays of November in our "century".
A canned search facit for uuuu-11-D12 can be interesting.. just as for 19uu-
05-01 (May Days in the 20th century)
There are other interesting dates.. such as Easter.. Easter pogroms or
Some days are symbollic on fixd places in the calendar.. such as the Roman
Catholic Christmas, May Day, Guy Fawkes Day.. some even are named after
their date: 5 May, 4 July, 11 Sept etc.
Others are fixed by other rules such as the U.S. Labor Day (first Monday in
Sept to mark a contrast with 1 May which comemorates the Chicago Haymarket
Riot of 1886), Easter, Newroz, Festival of Eid-ul-Fitr (the end of the month
I do not think it would be wise to try to create a controlled vocabulary for
these dates. They are too loaded and we don't want to open this Pandora's
These constructs can be quite useful for searches.. A query to search a
databse for accident reports on the U.S. Labor weekends in the 1980s can be
easy to formulate with an appropriate means to express it or difficult
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of the Developing Date/Time Standards
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Edward C. Zimmermann
> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:04 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [DATETIME] Requirements // Ordinal and Week dates
> > Sorry, I made a mistake anyway (brain was in stand-by).. ISO 8601
> > specifies
> > 1 for Monday in Wnn-n, e.g. W12-7 for Sunday week 12.
> > They count weeks starting (implicitly with 0 for Sunday or) 1 for
> > Monday (Week One also includes Monday in the period 29 Dec to 4 Jan) to
> > 7 for Sunday (with 0 eq 7). Zero is generally not used and ISO 8601
> > stars with 1 for Monday. The Unix date format also uses 1 for Monday
> > but starts counting with 0 for Sunday and does mod 7.
> > On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:10:03 +0100, [UTF-8?]SaaÅ¡ha Metsärantala wrote
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > as Dnm where n is 1-7 (Sun to Sat) and m is
> > > > 1 to 5 (or -5 to -1). [...] 2011-02-D13 would be read as the 3rd
> > > > Monday in Feb. 2011
> > > Which weekday would be day ONE: Sunday or Monday?
> > >
> > > > The default day would be Sun.
> > > Many weekdays have different cultural meanings. I would prefer to
> > > avoid
> > Its all about culture. The International Calendar is far from neutral..
> > > any default weekday if there is not any obvious agreement on it and a
> > > really strong reason for this choice.
> > Following ISO 8601 is probably the best path here...
> > >
> > > Regards!
> > >
> > > [UTF-8?]SaaÅ¡ha,
> > --
> > Edward C. Zimmermann, NONMONOTONIC LAB
> > http://www.nonmonotonic.net
> > Umsatz-St-ID: DE130492967
Edward C. Zimmermann, NONMONOTONIC LAB