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DATETIME  June 2011

DATETIME June 2011

Subject:

Re: Interval - compiance with 8601

From:

"Edward C. Zimmermann" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Discussion of the Developing Date/Time Standards <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 13 Jun 2011 23:39:40 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (151 lines)

Ray,
You are right... but (having not bothered with the examples) their example
is more than [log in to unmask] This not only violates their standard as expressed or as
I've interpreted it.. its also not, in my mind, very consistent. Does
  nn-mm mean month nn and day mm
  nnnn-mm mean year nnnn and month mm
but does
  mm mean month mm or day mm or century?

In 4.1.2.3 we have YY for "century" where "19" is given as an example.

Why should we assume, as they have here, that the year implied is the year
of the start of the interval?

If "1985-04-12/06-25" means 12 April 1985 to 25 June 1985 what does
"1985-04-12/02-25" mean? 12 April 1985 to 25 Feb 1986?
And "1985-04-26/25"? 26 April 1985 to 25 May 1985?
 
If I say to someone that the event will take place on "12 Oct" its, I think,
normally assumed that its 12 Oct as spoken, viz. 12 Oct 2011.

That is how my parser currently behaves. An interval specified as from
12 Oct 1985 to Jan is interpreted as 12 Oct 1986 - Jan 2011. I read each
point, start and end, as dates and don't assume the end or start depends
upon the information content of the other...

18850203/20 I would read as 3 Feb 1885 through the "century" defined by 20
rather than, as in the example, the 20th of Feb 1885.

We, of course, also have end>=start.. but its less than satisfying to guess
the intent... If that is what 8601 wants.. I'd say we toss it out.. and
adopt the--- and least what I have considered--- consistent
  start/end
where start and end are read as 8601 dates (resp. our extended forms) and
consider intervals where end>start as.. bad intervals...

On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:03:36 -0400, Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress wrote
> Well I just noticed in B.1.4 of 8601 (the "examples" section) the example:
>
> "a time interval starting at 12 April 1985 and ending on June 25, 1985:
> 1985-04-12/06-25"
>
> It seems only reasonable to infer from the inclusion of this example that
it
> is intended to be allowed. Even though the examples are non-normative, I'm
> tired of playing interpretation with 8601 and I take the position that
given
> such a glaring ambiguity we can intepret it as we please. So I am now
> inclined to agree with Ed's interpretation, and to cast this as a level 0
> feature.
>
> And, it is interesting to note that the year is omitted on the end
> component of the interval, implying that it is the same as the start year.
> I would deduce from this that
>
> 1985-04-12/25
>
> is legal, and means the same as
>
> 1985-04-12/1985-04-25
>
> --Ray
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of the Developing Date/Time Standards
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ray Denenberg
> > Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 2:37 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [DATETIME] Interval - compiance with 8601
> >
> > It seems there is a discrepancy about whether it is legal in 8601 for
> > the endpoints (start and end) of an interval to be other than "complete
> > representation". For example year/year , year-month/year-month, even
> > year-month-day/year-month-day would be less that complete
> > representation because the time is not included. Complete represention
> > has to be year-month-day-time/year-month-day-time.
> >
> > By a literal interpretation of 8601 this seems to be true, Ed
> > conjectures that it is an unintentional oversight. I don't think it
> > matters much as I'm sure we all agree that there is no reason to
> > disallow these "incomplete representations" in our spec.
> >
> > I suggest that we designate these as level 1 features. That is, they
> > are not part of the formal 8601 profile (level 0) but rather part of
> > the first level extensions.
> >
> > --Ray
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Discussion of the Developing Date/Time Standards
> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Edward C. Zimmermann
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:44 PM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [DATETIME] A three level suggestion // ISO 8601
> > > Hermeneutics
> > >
> > > On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:44:13 -0400, Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress
> > > wrote
> > > > From: Edward C. Zimmermann
> > > > > I only have a copy of the 2000 draft.. but..
> > > > >
> > > > > 5.2.1.3 defines these truncated dates.
> > > > > 5.5.1 gives pattern a) as an interval: start/end where start and
> > > end
> > > > > are dates.
> > > >
> > > > Ed - It appears to me that ISO 8601-2004 (the current version) is
> > > > freely available, since it is easily googled, for example:
> > > >
> > > > http://dotat.at/tmp/ISO_8601-2004_E.pdf
> > >
> > > In that version
> > >
> > > 4.4.1 here specifies start and send with / as a).
> > >
> > > In the verbage of 4.4.4.1 it asks for expressions compliant to 4.3.2
> > > Again, I think, this was an unintentional logical oversight in the
> > text.
> > > 4.2.2.3 defines the representations with reduced acuracy. There is no
> > > reason, I think, to disallow these. Note that they explicitly allow
> > > for reduced representations for durations so I don't see why they
> > would.....
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And my printed copy seems to be the same as this version. It
> > > > doesn't have any of the sections you cite; there is a section 5 but
> > > > it is a half-page with no subsections. Could you have a look at
> > the
> > > > newer
> > > one
> > > > and determine if what you saw in the older version is there?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > --Ray
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Edward C. Zimmermann, NONMONOTONIC LAB http://www.nonmonotonic.net
> > > Umsatz-St-ID: DE130492967


--

Edward C. Zimmermann, NONMONOTONIC LAB
http://www.nonmonotonic.net
Umsatz-St-ID: DE130492967

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