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ARSCLIST  August 2011

ARSCLIST August 2011

Subject:

Re: David Carroll "Let's Dance"

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 9 Aug 2011 20:19:28 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (127 lines)

Hi Kohji-san:

There was a catalog number for Max Roach "On the Chicago Scene," according to the discography in the 
Mosaic reissue set:
EmArcy SR60128 (stereo) Max Roach + 4 on the Chicago Scene

There were separate stereo and mono takes of
"Shirley"
"My Old Flame"
"Memo: To Maurice"

The Mosaic set includes both stereo and mono takes.

From the description of the recording provided on the 2-track reel, my bet is they did extra tunes 
in mono only that weren't included on the short-length tape, and those were on the LP. What I'm not 
clear about is why a separate mono take was required since the mic technique described was typical 
Bill Putnam of that era -- close-in mics on the instruments and room mics for the stereo master.

Regarding "Cannonball Enroute," the 3CD reissue by Polygram from the early 90's contains stereo of 
all those tunes, not fake stereo. The only true mono material is the first Emarcy album and the Nat 
Adderley Emarcy album. There was a separate reissue of the mono "Cannonball Adderley with Strings" 
and, now that I went back and checked the CD, a mono version of "Jump For Joy." However, I have a 
test pressing of a stereo version of "Jump For Joy" from 1959, so it was definitely recorded in 
stereo. My assumption is that the stereo master was lost by the time the CD reissue was made.

Have you ever seen a first-edition stereo LP of Buddy Morrow "Rock And Roll To Morrow"? I haven't 
but there is a test pressing and the session was recorded in stereo for 2-track release.

There are other strange Mercury issues with Charlie Rich. The Polygram reissue CD from the 1990's 
had mono singles mixes for several tunes, but I have the 2LP reissue set from the early 1980's and 
both albums are in stereo (and in their correct original sequences, which was not the case with the 
CD). There are also quite a few Mercury country albums that never got reissued on official Polygram 
or Universal CD's, including the excellent Jerry Lee Lewis albums. There was a cheapo Polygram 
Special Markets CD of Jerry Lee's remakes of his rock n roll hits, same for Johnny Cash's remakes 
for Mercury of his Sun hits. It's too bad someone at Polygram didn't go back and make a box set of 
the Mercury pop and country material, there were a lot of hits dating from the mid-40's onward. 
People like Tiny Hill, Patti Page, and the more jazz-pop guys like Richard Hayman, Pete Rugolo and 
David Carroll, plus Xavier Cugat. I suppose some might like the lush-string stuff from Celebacoff 
(sp?) and Hal Mooney. And then there are rock/pop and country guys like the Big Bopper, Jerry Lee 
Lewis, Charlie Rich, etc. And that's not even mentioning the late 60s and 70s country artists like 
Tom T. Hall and the Statler Brothers.

By the way, it's worth using the Wayback Machine and downloading the discography info from all the 
Mercury-related material reissued by Mosaic over the years. As they worked with the actual tapes, 
they had access to some information that updated and expanded Ruppli.  Some original album covers 
also conflict with Ruppli, and Mosaic for that matter! Not widespread, but an occasional curiosity. 
When Mosaic did the box set for Quincy Jones, they compared Ruppli to actual album covers and to 
actual tape box information and there were a few cases where none of it squared! They made some 
educated guesses and "executive decisions" that I think were correct. The documentation on the pop 
stuff is even more messy, as you can see from the Ruppli books. By the time he got there, many 
session dates and details were not in the files he had access to.  It must have been very 
frustrating.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MATSUBAYASHI, 'Shaolin' Kohji" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] David Carroll "Let's Dance"


> At Tue, 9 Aug 2011 06:39:03 -0400,
> Tom Fine wrote:
>>
>> Regarding Kohji-san's question, I've never seen a stereo LP version
>> of "Cannonball Enroute," but the contents were issued in stereo on
>> the 2-CD reissue collection.
>
> Seems like "Enroute" (MG-20616) was NOT released in stereo (SR-60616) -
> although the similar 1960-1961 release "Lush Side of Cannonball"
> (MG-20652, reissue of "With Strings" MG-36063) was released also in
> fake stereo version (SR-60652).
>
> I've never had and listened to the 2-CD edition of "Enroute" -
> does these CD reissue really contain the true stereo version of
> "Enroute"? I just thought these were recorded in mono only.
>
>
>> Also Max Roach "On The Chicago Scene."
>> The Max Roach was issued on stereo tape in 1956 but I don't think
>> it showed up in stereo on LP until the 70's. It was in stereo on
>> the Mosaic reissue set. I'm not saying those two albums definitely
>> weren't released in stereo back in the 1958-59 timeframe,
>> I'm just saying I've never seen an LP or test pressing.
>
> I believe these recordings were NOT recorded in 1956
> - "On The Chicago Scene" were recorded in 1958, and "Cannonball Enroute"
> (as well as "Sophisticated Swing") were recorded in 1957.
>
> Like Tom-san already mentioned, it seems no stereo versions were
> NOT released in the 1958-1959 timeframe, not even in the 1960s.
>
> AFAIK The earliest stereo session by Max Roach on Mercury was on in Mar.
> 1957, that would appear on stereo version of "Jazz in 3/4 Time" (SR-80002).
> The previous 1956 session (appeard on "Max Roach Plus Four" MG-36098)
> were recorded on monaural only, but the catalog number for the
> equivalent stereo release was assigned (SR-80001, unreleased).
> Just my guess, but it would be either that some simultaneous/experimental
> stereo recording was tried during the "Plus Four" session (but rejected),
> or that Mercury once planned to release the fake stereo version of the
> session (but rejected).
>
> And AFAIK The earliest stereo session by Cannonball on Mercury was in
> Mar. 1958 that would appear on stereo version of "Cannonball's Sharpshooters"
> (SR-80018). This was released in 1959 or 1960. One of the "Enroute"
> was from the "Sharpshooters" session ("I'll Remember April") - so
> this stereo version does exist.
>
>
>> By the way, Cannonball's "Jump For Joy" (with strings) was test-pressed
>> in stereo but I haven't seen a production stereo LP.
>> The stereo master was used on the CD reissue which also included
>> the mono "Cannonball with Strings."
>
> As for "Jump For Joy" (MG-36146 / SR-80017) - stereo version was
> released in 1959 or 1960. Can be easily found on the second-hand market.
>
> --
> MATSUBAYASHI, 'Shaolin' Kohji                  [log in to unmask]
>                                                 http://microgroove.jp/
> Maintainer, Jazz Discography Project           [log in to unmask]
>                                             http://www.jazzdisco.org/
>
> GPG Fingerprint: B978 03AD F4DC BA4F 5EC3  2637 67C4 9961 DE4B 5ACC
> 

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