LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  December 2011

ARSCLIST December 2011

Subject:

Re: 2011 Musical Advent Calendar (Norwegian Institute of Recorded Sound)

From:

George Brock-Nannestad <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:06:36 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (210 lines)

From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad


Hello,

on 1 December Jaqueline von Arb introduced the annual Advent Calendar from 
the Norwegian Institute of Recorded Sound (NIRS) on several lists, on 
ARSCLIST as shown below, and the website has been accessed.

One of the lists is MUS-PERF-REC, dedicated to the documentation of 
performance by means of recordings and it was created out of the CHARM 
project that ran from 2005-2010 based at Royal Holloway and King's College. 
It mainly involves researchers who are engaged in the professional use of 
recordings. Many of these have moved on to matters more related to 
performance as such, and for this another list has been created, PERF-STUD-
NET. 

On 12 December on MUS-PERF-REC a criticism of the offerings of NIRS was 
voiced, and I consider that it might also be of interest to ARSCLIST readers. 
It tallies well with some of the discussions that have taken place here. No 
response has been forthcoming from Norway on the MUS-PERF-REC list, and no 
changes to the soundtracks have been noted, and for fairness I would have 
preferred to include such items in the present posting. However, the text 
relating to 2 December was cropped on 15 December, and all reference to the 
Grenadier Guards have been removed. Google's cache still has it, however.

My co-authors and I have reflected that our dour and academic approach to web 
presentations of historical content pales completely compared to the original 
jubilant presentation.

Kind regards,


George

P.S. Just a few words on the authors of the posting:

 - Peter Craven is one of the acousticians/mathematicians who developed 
Ambisonics
 - Peter Adamson is a specialist on Berliner records and reproduction of 
coarse groove records
 - I am notorious on this list and need no introduction

-------------


"From:	Peter Craven <[log in to unmask]>
To:	[log in to unmask] 
Subject:	Re: [MUS-PERF-REC] 2011 Musical Advent Calendar (Norwegian Institute 
of Recorded Sound)
Date sent:	Mon, 12 Dec 2011 00:12:16 +0000

Dear list members,

We refer to Jacqueline von Arb's recent posting concerning the
musical Advent Calendar provided by the Norwegian Institute of
Recorded Sound for the fourth year running.

A delightful idea certainly, and the presentation on the website is
most attractive, but we have been disappointed by both the technical
quality of the transfers and the accuracy of the discographical
information.

Anyone can make a mistake, and the fact that Caruso was already dead
by the alleged date (1924) of the first recording offered this year:
       
http://www.recordedsound.no/english/exhibitions/christmas11/december1.php

has already been pointed in two comments posted by listeners.  We also
note that the lyrics were not "trad." but were composed by J. Bertrand.

The second offering is even stranger in this regard:

   http://www.recordedsound.no/english/exhibitions/christmas11/december2.php

Band of the H.B. Grenadier Guards ?  It doesn't sound like it.
On further investigation we have determined that it wasn't recorded in
1926 either - it is a a 1948 recording of the Danish/Swedish singer
Frans Andersson singing in Danish with the Copenhagen Chamber Choir,
harp, strings, and organ (arranged and conducted by Arne Bertelsen) on
the Felix label: Felix P9.  We also note that a Columbia record would
not have been published by His Masterīs Voice in 1926, as they were
not merged into EMI until 1931.

Turning now to technical quality, the undersigned are not frightened
of a bit of crackle, and consider that the ear generally does a better
job of separating crackle from music than do most electronic devices.
So we are not complaining about that.  Nor are we complaining about
the stereo presentation - although this is unusual, it is arguably an
advantage to have crackle emerging separately from one's two
loudspeakers, while the music is heard as emanating from a point
midway between.

However, what we hear on some of these transfers is strange indeed.
From the first note of the orchestral introduction onwards, Day 1's
Caruso offering has severe burbles, sounding similar to those that
sometimes occur with misapplied, or over-applied, crackle reduction.
But no, the crackle is there too.  We assume that the problem may be
caused by an MP3 encoder that is reacting badly to certain
characteristics of the non-smooth background noise.  It is also
possible that a poor choice of stylus size has contributed to the
generally unsteady result.  List members may find it interesting to
compare this with the transcription on the National Jukebox:

      http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/recordings/detail/id/4387

We also note that the Caruso transfer has been made at 78.26 rpm..
Although there are sources stating that most records were recorded at
speeds between 78 and 80 rpm from 1910 onwards, we believe this to be
incorrect in the case of Victor, and that 76rpm would be correct in
this case.  Please see the postscript for further details.

The difference between 76rpm and 78.26rpm equates to a speed change
of 3% or a pitch change of half a semitone, which is hardly
insignificant.  (Unfortunately, the National Jukebox also seems to be
unaware of the published evidence on this matter - their Caruso
transfer is at 78.42 rpm.)

Day 3 brings us a very uncharacteristic-sounding Gigli again with some
burbling.  The individual crackles are set on an over-smooth sounding
record surface again suggesting that something has been lost in an MP3
encoding process.  And so it goes on.

Overall, we do warmly applaud this initiative, which is both pleasing
and potentially instructive.  However, our present concern is partly
that today misconceptions abound regarding 78rpm records, not only
among the general public but also on the part of broadcasters and
journalists.  It is becoming received opinion that recordings made
before the LP era were terrible and can be rescued only by modern
digital wizardry.  We do not hold that view, but fear that the
transcriptions presented here may serve to fuel it.

We hope that for the Norwegian Institute may be able to enlist some
more technical expertise, and maybe also some more discographical
expertise, in preparing the Advent Calendar for 2012, to which we are
looking forward very much.

Peter Adamson
George Brock-Nannestad
Peter Craven

Postscript re speeds
--------------------

Recording speeds are discussed for example in:
   Brock-Nannestad, G., "The Objective Basis for the Production of
   High Quality Transfers from Pre-1925 Sound Recordings",
   Audio Engineering Society Preprint No. 4610,
   103rd Convention 1997 September 26-29, New York.
which quotes (on page 9) a letter dated 13th July 1910 from
Mr. Haddon of Victor to the Gramophone Company in England:
   "We are about to dispense with the figures 76 on our standard dial
   speed regulator, substituting in place thereof figures 78,
   notwithstanding that the general speed at which our records are
   recorded is 76."

The same paper quotes further contemporary references to the use of
76rpm for recording (but not playback) at Victor.  Further evidence
known to us suggests that 76rpm for recording remained Victor policy
from 1910 until at least the end of acoustical recording in 1925,
and we are not aware of contemporaneous sources that would suggest
otherwise. "



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:	Jacqueline von Arb <[log in to unmask]>
To:	[log in to unmask] 
Subject:	[ARSCLIST] 2011 Musical Advent Calendar (Norwegian Institute of Recorded Sound)
Date sent:	Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:15:55 +0000

> Dear AV colleagues,
> 
> The Norwegian Institute of Recorded Sound (NIRS) follows up the great
> feedback we got over the last few years for our musical Advent Calendar with
> more old, old... old  recordings! After all, it has now become a
> tradition!
> 
> Today's contribution:
> http://www.recordedsound.no/english/exhibitions/christmas11/december1.php
> 
> Every day until Christmas Day, we will present a vintage recording, with its
> original historical noises, where legendary singers and musicians from the
> first half of the 20th Century interpret Christmas music.
> 
> New sound clip(s) and text will be published every day on our
> website<http://www.recordedsound.no/english/exhibitions/christmas11/>! and
> you can also listen to the last two year's music!
> 
> Do you wish to receive a daily reminder with the day's link(s)? - just
> answer this email!<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> and/or you can also sign up as 'attending' on the Facebook
> event<http://www.facebook.com/events/325333834160286/>.
> 
> (NB: if you have received daily's before, you will automatically receive
> this year's as well - no need to sign up again)
> 
> Musically yours,
> the archivists at the Norwegian Institute of Recorded Sound
> Jacqueline von Arb and Tim Rishton
> 
> 
> ------Useful links---------
> 
> NIRS Website in English:
> http://www.recordedsound.no/english/exhibitions/christmas11/
> NIRS on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/recordedsound
> Advent calendar Facebook event:
> http://www.facebook.com/events/325333834160286/

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager