Are you the David Weiner that used to be an executive with Polygram Classics
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Jay Sonin, General Manager
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From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Weiner
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 1:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Jazz's First Record Turns 95
I thought it has been well and firmly determined that the ODJB did NOT do
a Columbia session in January 1917 and the first time they stepped into a
Columbia studio was in May.
On 2/22/12 1:04 PM, "Art Shifrin" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>My edition of Brian Rust's 1897-1942 contains 1,753 pages of cylinders
>that I found quickly is by Wilbur Sweatman's Band on page 1515, recorded
>Minneapolis circa 1903 - 1904) and disks of various 'speeds'. I don't
>all of which and how many of those listings precede the Victors by the
>But a glaring irony are the FIRST two recordings made by the ODJB for
>COLUMBIA on January 30, 1917. According to Rust (presumably based on
>Columbia recording ledgers) it was issued in the USA on 10" #A2297 & in
>England on #2903. They are Darktown Strutters Ball (master 77086-3-4) and
>Indiana (master 77087-2-3) I recall reading X years ago that the two
>were not issued until shortly after the high sales of their Victor 18255
>became known by Columbia officials.
>As already cited, the issue of being first is debatable. In this case at
>least two criteria are contradictory: when recorded versus when issued.
>The Jazzwax blog refers to the Victor SESSION
>of 02-26-17. It was self-evidently not the ODJB's first. The blog is
>interesting and entertaining, but its lack of reference to the Columbia
>session is very questionable.
>Additionally, there are the criteria of what comprises jazz. I don't know
>a way of searching Rust's
>listings for ALL listed recordings made prior to February 26, 1917. The
>posting citing Sweatman's work easily at least, leads to a few. But what
>others are there (in this edition or other compilations)?
>Which 'experts' regard which as JASS aka JAZZ?
>A respondent to the Jazzwax blog cites (
>Vess L. Osman's "St. Louis Tickle" as being the first (Victor 3037-2
>single sided 10" disk # 4624 & later issued on two sided 16092 Rust page
>1199). My opinion is that it's NOT jazz
>but ragtime. I'm interested in other opinions, including those who are
>musicologists. Note that the data in the link states that some of the
>issues of 16092 were NOT by Ossman, but recorded later.
>By Rust's criteria, Ossman previously recorded Jazz. (pages 1197 -
>1201....commencing with Berliner 7" #467 Ragtime Medley recorded in NYC on
>October 9, 1897). If a composition containing "Rag" or "Ragtime" ARE jazz
>recordings, then might that mean that the terms were at any time synonyms
>for Jas or Jazz? Or, do the two terms in a title preclude the
>from being Jazz?
>Finally, several times I tried the link
>It did not access WSJ article.