LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  February 2012

ARSCLIST February 2012

Subject:

Re: IRCC and HRS sources

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:53:46 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (215 lines)

Some questions about these "societies" and "clubs":

1. how legit were these "reissues"? Were these like Biltmore and other pirate labels, making junky 
dubs of old records, or were they real reissues made from original parts licensed from the record 
companies? If I understand what George is saying below, the IRCC was licensing material from EMI, 
which EMI would press for them from metal parts in their files? Were they unique in this?

2. how did subscriptions work? Did you only get what was being pressed at any given time or could 
you choose from other items like Book of the Month Club?

3. how in the world did they package shellac records for postal distribution? I've had such bad luck 
with eBay sellers that I'm guessing this is a lost art if it was done successfully by those 
subscription clubs.

4. in the case of HRS, this was based out of a store, so could you buy the records in the store?

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources


> From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>
>
> Hello Tom,
>
> thank you for commenting further, and I am sorry I was not precise. The fact
> is that I am interested in the dates that these versions of the old
> recordings were first made available to subscribers (I suppose your HRS used
> subscribers).
>
> So, the left-hand column looked very promising, although it says "Cat #". We
> get dates from May 1937 - to December 1938. After that it is only catalogue
> numbers. Apparently, the later issues from the late 40s are, as you say,
> original, and so the recording date, which is given, will be close to the
> issue date.
>
> The fact is that the distribution of records happened around the issue date
> and not around the recording date. These semi-private distribution activities
> were part of the record scene, and I find those dates interesting.
>
> Incidentally, the IRCC were not able to order pressings from EMI by giving
> Artist's names, because press runs could only be ordered by matrix number. So
> they guessed at matrix numbers clustered around those had been published in
> order to find unissued material. And they did. Presumably, the test pressings
> Seltsam ordered were from the original negatives, which makes later re-issues
> in vinyl slightly less pristine.
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> George
>
> ----------------------------------
>
>
>> I'm not sure what you're talking about. The first link is for a listing of
>> the Hot Record Society,
>> reissues and original issues. There ARE dates after 1938, many covering
>> HRS's original issues made
>> in the mid and late 40's. See the detailed book that accompanied the Mosaic
>> reissue of those
>> records. As far as I can tell, most of the original dates from "pirate"
>> reissues are covered in that
>> listing, although they may or may not be correct.
>>
>> As with any information on a website, if I were doing anything authoratative
>> like a reissue booklet
>> or discography book, I'd double-check everything with from-the-day printed
>> sources, which requires
>> trips to libraries and the like. I checked a few of the original-issue
>> session dates from the late
>> 40's and they match up with the Mosaic reissue book.
>>
>> I don't know anything about the IRCC label, so I won't comment on that page
>> of the website.
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "George Brock-Nannestad" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>>
>>
>> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>> >
>> >
>> > - nope, none will do: the HRS is not Historic Record Society (as in the
>> book
>> > "70 years...", but Hot Record Society. And after 1938, no dates.
>> >
>> > And the other does not have the information either, for IRCC.
>> >
>> > So it's back to legwork, as Steve says.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> >
>> > George
>> >
>> >
>> >> what about this?
>> >> http://www.78discography.com/HRS.htm
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >> http://www.78discography.com/IRCC.htm
>> >>
>> >> useful at all?
>> >>
>> >> -- Tom Fine
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Steven Smolian" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:36 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > The IRCC and HRS reissues were reviewed as they came out in the
>> Americna
>> >> > Record Guide.  Aida Favia-Artsy reviewed many and discussed their
>> origins
>> >> in
>> >> > various issued of Hobbies Magazine.  ARG was indexewd in "Music
>> Index"
>> >> but
>> >> > not the individual reviews, as I recall.  Hobbies wasn't.
>> >> >
>> >> > These labels also sent new release announcements to subscribers and
>> >> > libraries.
>> >> >
>> >> > The info is out there but requires lots of digging.  And the dates of
>> >> the
>> >> > dubbed items on the labels are notoriously unreliable.
>> >> >
>> >> > Steve Smolian
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> >> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of George
>> Brock-Nannestad
>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 3:34 AM
>> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>> >> >
>> >> > From: Patent Tactics, George Brock-Nannestad
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > looking at what is available via GoogleBooks, it seems that this book
>> >> has
>> >> > one big "failing". It seems that it does not list the dates of the
>> >> reissues,
>> >> > only of the original recordings. If someone knows that there is an
>> index
>> >> for
>> >> > precisely this (a sort of chronological "discography" of special
>> >> pressings),
>> >> > then I am merely ignorant and would like to be informed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kind regards,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > George
>> >> >
>> >> > -------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hey, Tim,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I don't know of any.  Many of the dubs on IRCC and HRS are from hill
>> >> >> and dale discs and from cylinders.  I don't recall if Gerard &
>> Barnes
>> >> >> list the later dubs, but many will self-identify from plowing throgh
>> >> >> that book, side by IRCC side.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Steve Smolian
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> >> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hawthorn's Antique
>> >> >> Audio
>> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:21 PM
>> >> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> >> Subject: [ARSCLIST] IRCC and HRS sources
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi Everyone,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Does anyone know of a readily available reference that will list the
>> >> >> source recordings for the many IRCC, HRS and similar reissues?
>> >> >> "Seventy Years of Issues" by Tom Peel covers the records pressed
>> from
>> >> >> original metal parts, but not the dubbings, and some of those are
>> the
>> >> >> ones I'm trying to identify.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Tom Hawthorn
>> >> >> Hawthorn's Antique Audio
>> >> >> www.thoseoldrecords.com
>> >> >> [log in to unmask]
>> >> >
>> >
> 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager