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ISOJAC  February 2012

ISOJAC February 2012

Subject:

SV: ISO-639 code 'www'

From:

Håvard Hjulstad <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 23 Feb 2012 20:43:54 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (106 lines)

Dear Gérard,

1- As JAC secretary it isn't my role to participate in the selection of JAC chair. That task belongs with the RAs. As you will know the entire ISO 639 system is in a transition stage.

2- The JAC is are not publishing details of voting. This may change in the future, but it hasn't been the practice in the past. I may not have circulated the result of this ballot; I shall look into it and follow up.

3- There was clearly no consensus in the JAC to deprecate (and reserve) "www" (nor "ftp", which hasn't really been discussed). I may not have circulated the result of that round of discussions (there was no ballot); I shall look into it and follow up.

Best regards,
Håvard

-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] På vegne av Gérard Lang-Marconnet
Sendt: 23 februar 2012 09:09
Til: [log in to unmask]
Emne: Re: SV: ISO-639 code 'www'

Dear Havard,
Could you, in your quality of current ISO 639/RA-JAC secretary:
1-Confirm that, as explained in my previous message, Melinda Lyons (as ISO 639-3 representative) is, from now on and for at most two years, nominated as president of the ISO 639/RA-JAC ?;
2-Give the official results of the two rounds of vote concerning the creation of the language name "Montenegrin" inside ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2, including the individual answers of every voting member ?;
3-Confirm that, concerning the ISO 639-3 code elements "ftp" and "www", the ISO 639/RA-JAC decided to "stick with the principle not change codes", as wrote Rebecca ?.
Gérard Lang
Le 22 juil. 2011 à 13:14, Håvard Hjulstad a écrit :

> ISO 639 language identifiers are alpha-2, alpha-3, and alpha-4 strings. The future may even give us longer strings. There are hundreds of possible "conflicts" with other coding systems and applications of various coding systems.
> 
> The issue here is not "www" as in "www.prettymuchanything.com", but the fact that one application, the Wikipedia (albeit "important"), has chosen to use ISO 639 identifiers to designate subdomains. When an application choses to use items from a different code space in this way, it needs to realize that it has its limitations. ISO 639 was there before the Wikipedia; whether "www = Wawa" was assigned before or after the time that the Wikipedia started the current practice, isn't relevant.
> 
> It so happens that Wawa is an "unimportant" language. Is that relevant at all? So Wikipedia is "important" and Wawa is "unimportant"; how important and unimportant do things need to be for the principles of ISO 639 stability to be broken? There are many other "important" two-, three-, and four-letter words and abbreviations. How many should be on the list of "items that are reserved because someone might want to use them for something else"?
> 
> Best regards,
> Håvard
> 
> --------------------
> Håvard Hjulstad
>   prosjektleder / Project Manager
>   Standard Norge / Standards Norway
>  [log in to unmask]
>   http://www.standard.no/
> --------------------
>  Tenk på miljøet før du skriver ut denne e-posten. / Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> 
> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
> Fra: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] På vegne av Michael Everson
> Sendt: 21. juli 2011 15:55
> Til: [log in to unmask]
> Emne: Re: ISO-639 code 'www'
> 
> I think I have shown that Peter's points are not actually very good. 
> 
> There is no harm to the Wawa in retiring a problematic code and shifting to another one. And "ftp" should certainly be reserved.
> 
> On 21 Jul 2011, at 14:33, Guenther, Rebecca wrote:
> 
>> Good points, Peter. We also should stick with our principle not to change codes.
>> 
>> Rebecca
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Constable
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:45 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: ISO-639 code 'www'
>> 
>> I'm reluctant to take this change. It is based on a poor design in consuming applications or protocols in not isolating language identifiers from other pieces of information. For instance, one could equally imagine someone asking for a change to the alpha-2 ID for Catalan because some application or protocol has a conflict between "ca" for Catalan vs. "ca" for Canada. In the IETF discussion, there was a suggestion that perhaps "ftp" should also be permanently reserved in ISO 639. To me, this is not sensible.
>> 
>> Wrt lables like "ftp", when used in "ftp://", those are protocol identifiers that never interact with language identifiers. There is absolutely no basis in this case to claim collision with ISO 639.
>> 
>> Wrt the Internet domain name system (including internationalized domain names), there is nothing inherent to the domain name system that points to requirements being placed on ISO 639. Top level domains names are controlled by ICANN and will never collide with ISO 639 IDs. Registered domain identifiers that fall under a top-level domain are basically at the discretion of the registrant (subject to availability, of course); these should never be used in conflict with ISO 639, and if anybody tried to make such a claim it would not be supported by ICANN. Deeper level domain IDs, including "www", are entirely at the discretion of the individual registered-domain owner; someone could design their naming conventions to conflict with any number of ISO 639 IDs (or ISO 3166, or ...), but IMO we should not ever accommodate such requests.
>> 
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Guenther, Rebecca
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 1:01 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: ISO-639 code 'www'
>> 
>> We say that we only deprecate a code for compelling reasons. This may be a compelling reason, however. Plus the language code probably isn't that frequently used. 
>> 
>> Rebecca 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ISO 639 Joint Advisory Committee [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ISO639-3
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:04 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Fwd: ISO-639 code 'www'
>> 
>> Dear ISO Committee members,
>> 
>> This request came to me a bit earlier in the spring. I put it out to the IETF and received varying replies. I am hesitant to deprecate a code for practical reasons which have nothing to do with language encoding, but would like to hear your input.
>> 
>> Melinda Lyons
>> ISO639-3 RA
>> SIL International
>> 7500 W. Camp Wisdom Rd.
>> Dallas, TX 75236
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --- the forwarded message follows ---
> 
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

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