LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST@LISTSERV.LOC.GOV


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  April 2012

ARSCLIST April 2012

Subject:

Re: Ledgers for transcription pressings

From:

djwein <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:13:45 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (157 lines)

Yeah, but the Victor Master Book omits the master prefixes, except for the P
West Coast series.

Dave Weiner

-----Original Message-----
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Randy Riddle
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Ledgers for transcription pressings

Thanks for the info, Mike.  Some comments and an update:

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> These would be easy if I had a copy of Victor Master Book Vol 2 at hand.
>  P = Pacific Coast studios, M = 16-inch standard groove, S = improved
> Western Electric recording system, and the number would be interpolated
> into the regular recording matrix series.  It is near the end of the
> switch over to a leading zero series after this one hit 100,000 so this
> is around 1936.  They probably can be dated within a week.

I'll see if I can locate a copy of the Victor Master Book V2.

Which discographies would you recommend that include 16"
transcriptions from the major labels?

>> According to Jim, it's part 2 of an episode of "Weird Tales", a series
>> based on the sci-fi magazine, and he was told it dates from 1938. The
>> label, along with the pressing style (laminated) makes me think it's
>> much earlier.
>
>
> Does the label state "Pressed but not recorded by Columbia"?  For
> recordings made by Columbia there would be a circled W and a six digit
> matrix number, and elsewhere there might be the take and stamper letter.
>  There is a possibility that the IA might be: take one stamper A.

Indeed, it does say "Pressed but not recorded by Columbia".

I got a digital transfer of the disc from Jim today and gave it a
listen - it mentions that the series is "Weird Tales" in the end
announcements and the company that created it - "Hollywood Radio
Attractions".

A few minutes of Googling, and I found that the disc dates from 1933
(not 1938).  I found a site that mentions a brochure from Hollywood
Radio Attractions where they were trying to sell the series.  They had
produced three episodes and were proposing to record another fifty
shows.

>
> Finally, there's a series of Columbia pressings I've got from the
> "Continental Broadcasting Corporation" that were dated by Goldin to
> 1930-31. These are 16" laminated single-sided pressings with the
> title "Gillum & Duke Atterbury" stamped on the labels. Goldin listed
> one show in the series when I got it and he called it "The Two
> Daffodils" and the title isn't clear in the program contents. I've
> never found a title for it in newspaper articles or listings of the
> period under either title.
>
>
http://randsesotericotr.podbean.com/category/continental-broadcasting-corp/
>
> Continental was a major West Coast syndicator for a couple of years from
> 1930, and they might have been absorbed into Radio Transcrption Corp of
> America, or Transco.  The Komedy Kapers episode you mention might be a
> repressing of one of these programs.

That's a possibility.  It would be nice to see the original name of
the show to see where it pops up in program listings of the day.  I've
got several 1940s era repressings of Transco shows in my collection -
nice red vinyl with wonderful sound.

>
>> I agree with your grumblings about otr collectors. However, I'll cut
>> them some slack, at least collectors who were dubbing and trading this
>> stuff years ago - their interest was based on nostalgia and not on
>> historical research. I don't think many realized what they had.
>
> During those same years record collectors were doing magnificent
> discographical jobs of documenting and identifying recordings.

OTR collectors were really focused on the shows themselves and using
high-quality tape dubs to trade for tape dubs of shows they didn't
have - they didn't seem interested in the artifacts themselves.

I think the reason for that is that the original discs are rare and
hard to collect.  If you were a fan of big band and jazz music during
that time, you could dig around record shops and dealers and quickly
assemble a nice basic collection by big name performers.

For OTR, original discs were pressed in much smaller quantities and
are often unique lacquers and by necessity could only be the domain a
relatively few collectors, even for a basic collection of "greatest
hits".  So the focus by the broader audience shifted to collecting on
lp and tape.

I think the appreciation among music collectors for discs is greater
because many more people had a chance to hold a hard to find, fragile
78 in their hands and understand why discographies and this type of
documentation is important.  Still today, OTR collectors have blinders
on, researching exact dates and titles of show episodes and finding
the "best copy" on tape or mp3 of a show.

>> I was hoping my blog would encourage otr enthusiasts to document the
>> discs themselves, whether pressings or instantaneous recordings, since
>> the labels, matrix numbers or even the style of the disc itself can
>> have some key information about the recorded sound. But my approach
>> seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
>
> Your efforts with the photos as well as the descriptions are great --
> and the fact that the OTR people STILL don't appreciate this (and even
> LAUGH at it) shows how dense some of them are.

I don't think it's being dense as much as being stuck in a rut.

I'm curious if people in OTR circles are laughing at my blog for it's
often scattered writing or my focus on documenting the artifacts (the
labels and discographical info) or something else.

I have heard some in OTR circles that think I'm a dope for buying
uncirculated shows and posting them on the blog, rather than hoarding
them to trade for other shows or selling audio cd or mp3 discs of
them.  And, yes, I got used to seeing shows I'd post one week turn up
the next on ebay in mp3 collections or for sale from various web-based
otr dealers.

Trading around mp3s or tapes of otr is a bit boring for me personally
and short-sighted for the hobby, IMHO.  Many of the fans of OTR that
were around to hear the original shows or came to the hobby later are
getting up in years and the original discs themselves are spread out
to the four winds.

I really think we're in the last couple of decades when we can use
modern digital technologies and techniques to do fresh transfers of
discs, properly document them and combine all that with the knowledge
of OTR that fans and hobbyists have accumulated over the years.  When
that knowledge is gone, it's not so easy to put all the puzzle pieces
together again.

> I know a dozen or so collectors and discographers who have collected,
> reissued, and documented these Nat Ra Adv Co. discs, and in almost all
> cases they have not been able to find full six-disc episodes intact.  I
> myself have only one instance of a complete episode, found originally by
> the late George Blacker.  Every disc known at the time, and all of the
> paperwork that still exists, are documented in Ross Laird's Brunswick
> Discography.  Some more holes were filled in with a find of about 125
> discs two years ago -- but in that huge group there was not one instance
> of a complete episode!!!

I still think more are hiding out there.  I still run into dealers or
collectors familiar with 78s that have no idea what 12" 78 radio
syndication discs are.  More advanced collectors or dealers are
certainly aware of them.

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager