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ARSCLIST  May 2012

ARSCLIST May 2012

Subject:

Re: Presenting to a College classes / mic or not to mic

From:

Cary Ginell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 23 May 2012 14:27:54 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (331 lines)

ARSC had an excellent technician in New Orleans two years ago. A real no-nonsense veteran audio engineer, not some disinterested kid like we had in Rochester last week. I think that the success of the entire conference can be made or broken by the quality of the technician on duty. It's an urgent matter that really needs to be seriously addressed before Kansas City gets too close.
 
Cary Ginell
 

> Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:03:14 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Presenting to a College classes / mic or not to mic
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> Sadly, the quality of the audio at the current AES shows has not 
> improved much from what I experienced in the early Seventies in New York 
> either. The only difference now is that the pain involves the visual 
> portion of the presentations as well. The same can be said for many 
> SMPTE events. (I actually halted a presentation once for about 10 
> minutes until they fixed a horrible audio problem. The members in 
> attendance applauded!)
> 
> The only way to deal with these issues is to threaten to pull the show 
> if the venue can't provide a competent audio-visual sub-contractor. When 
> the problems start to affect a venue's bottom line, it gets their 
> attention, especially in a tough economy. There is no reason to put up 
> with half-baked systems and incompetent operators in this day and age.
> 
> --Scott
> 
> Scott D. Smith CAS
> Chicago Audio Works, Inc.
> 
> On 5/23/2012 11:16 AM, Louis Hone wrote:
> > I remember attending my first AES conference in New York in the mid 70s and
> > the seminar and workshop sound was horrible - Feedback, distortion, poor
> > mic placement, etc. I couldn't understand how the gods of sound who
> > created such good recordings could put up with 3 days of bad audio. The
> > worst part was during a presentation about the use of wireless mics for the
> > theater: The poor presenter's demonstration went haywire because throughout
> > his talk, his wireless mic was frequently picking up taxi radios and truck
> > CBs. I'm sure not many theater sound designers were tempted to go with
> > wireless mics after this demonstration. I remember asking John Eargle why
> > the audio was so bad during the AES show, and it seemed to boil down to
> > unionized hotel personnel who had no clue about good audio.
> >
> > Louis Hone
> >
> > 2012/5/23 Tom Fine<[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >> Hi Dennis:
> >>
> >> Ah, you were in room A!
> >>
> >> Here's the problem the conference is up against in most cities -- you have
> >> no choice of vendors. The hotel usually has one vendor and union rules
> >> and/or contract obligations prevent any but a few options as to the level
> >> of service. I would say this subject needs to be addressed when the hotel
> >> is chosen.
> >>
> >> I can lend a little insight here because my company does our conferences
> >> in Manhattan, which has some of the tightest union rules in the world. I
> >> can't touch any equipment, not even move a microphone or cable. We in fact
> >> severed ties with our long-time site after 20 years of staging conferences
> >> there, over AV issues among other things. I won't address "corkage fees" on
> >> this list!
> >>
> >> In recent years, I have taken over the audio recording at our conferences
> >> because of a major screwup where the idiot tech fed the preview buss to the
> >> recorder instead of the output buss! I am allowed to receive a cable from
> >> the output buss and operate my own recorders (two), and at one of the
> >> venues I negotiated to where they don't give me grief about bringing my own
> >> little mixer so I can control the levels going to both recorders. This
> >> direct interaction with the AV people has been helpful, very helpful. I now
> >> know and can call up the owners of the companies and by now I know the
> >> on-site supervisors (for now, these folks change jobs all the time). Thus,
> >> problems can be solved before they crop up. I talk in advance with the AV
> >> people running our conference, tell them my expectations and relate some
> >> past war stories so they understand what we want to avoid at all costs. On
> >> the day of the conference, I expect them to be set up and ready to roll at
> >> 7am, two hours before presentations. We encourage all the presenters to
> >> come to the room between 7 and 8 and make sure their media runs properly.
> >> More and more people are choosing to use the house PC, which is helpful
> >> except in the case of oddball fonts and embedded media. The younger
> >> presenters tend to use their own laptops and in those cases we've had
> >> pretty good luck with embedded content (except, as I said, Flash and
> >> Quicktime video looks like crap on a giant screen, and lossy audio sounds
> >> terrible over a PA system unless it's pretty high bitrate).
> >>
> >> For future ARSC Conferences, I suggest that someone on the planning
> >> committee be somewhat expert in venue AV issues, either as someone who
> >> deals with this in their day job or someone who runs a venue-sound company
> >> or some other such thing. We don't need a deluxe hifi system in our rooms,
> >> but we need working equipment, competent operators and company owners who
> >> are hands-on enough to make sure that problems get solved. We should also
> >> tighten up the organization and guidelines for presenters. I'll say again,
> >> Sara Velez is a good example of a hands-on leader of a panel who made sure
> >> things were highly likely to work before anyone had to stand up in front of
> >> an audience and do their show. If every other panel leader wasn't doing the
> >> same thing, they should have been, that should be part of the job.
> >>
> >> Just to clarify, I was very happy with how things went during my own
> >> presentation, and for that matter everything else I saw in room D. I
> >> thought there were problems during some presentations in room A, mainly
> >> with the quality of the technician. That kid needs to find another line of
> >> work, he reminded me of those college slacker characters in Doonesbury.
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Rooney"<
> >> [log in to unmask]>
> >> To:<[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:47 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Presenting to a College classes / mic or not to mic
> >>
> >>
> >> I'll join this thread to add my agreement with Mike, Cary, Tom, etc. about
> >>> the clueless A/V in Rochester. In more than fifteen conferences, I have
> >>> always been bemused by how an audio organization winds up with such
> >>> vendors. Many of us have been saying for years, and our recently completed
> >>> conference reinforces it, that local arrangements is not qualified to
> >>> choose a vendor and that a member of the Technical Committee MUST
> >>> supervise
> >>> both that choice and the installation of the A/V service. Otherwise,
> >>> nothing will improve.
> >>>
> >>> DDR
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:18 AM, Michael Biel<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Since I've been going to ARSC since 1971, I've seen lots of different AV
> >>>> set-ups. Until I was president and able to get them to PAY for
> >>>> professional AV instead of using student assistants, I often had to run
> >>>> up to the equipment and save the day over and over, year after year.
> >>>> One year in Washington I gave the techiekid my talk's script with the
> >>>> mini-disc tracks all marked. "Oh, I won't have time to follow a script,
> >>>> I'll be too busy." "Why? Everything is right there on the script.
> >>>> You'll have nothing else to do." He indignently said "Are YOU telling
> >>>> me how to do my job?" "YES!!!! I AM telling you how to do your job.
> >>>> I'VE DONE AND TAUGHT YOUR JOB since before you were born." And of
> >>>> course he completely screwed it up when he had to skip a track. As I
> >>>> tried to tell him from the podium "Track 14, track 14, one ahead of
> >>>> that, now one behind that . . ." he took up more time than the track I
> >>>> skipped. After it was over a lady I didn't know said I owed him an
> >>>> apology. "No, he owes ME an apology because he was arrogant in not
> >>>> following instructions."
> >>>>
> >>>> A year or two ago, the techiekid in the smaller room set up the screen
> >>>> right behind the only entrance door to the room. Not only would people
> >>>> walk across the screen to get in and out during the sessions, everybody
> >>>> entering the room even between sessions would be BLINDED by the
> >>>> projector. Fortunately I noticed it during the opening joint session in
> >>>> the large room when I went in to set up my camera and mic. I told him
> >>>> he must move it. "Where?" "Over to the other front corner away from
> >>>> the door." "I'm not moving anything unless the conference manager tells
> >>>> me." Although she had not told him how to do this screwy set-up, I had
> >>>> to run around and find Brenda and drag her away from what else she was
> >>>> doing.
> >>>>
> >>>> And this guy was a "pro".
> >>>>
> >>>> Sometimes it is that they are not used to having an audience filled with
> >>>> some of the most knowledgeable audio-video people in the world, and they
> >>>> treat us the same way they treat the Elks Club. (They're drunk anyway
> >>>> and never notice.) But if they are good, they take it as a challenge to
> >>>> make sure they do everything right to impress us -- and then we get
> >>>> GREAT AV!
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Presenting to a College classes / mic or not
> >>>> to mic
> >>>> From: Tom Fine<[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Date: Tue, May 22, 2012 3:00 pm
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>
> >>>> I noticed that in room A, semi-inept kid and no line of sight to the
> >>>> podium. In room D, the kid was
> >>>> more competent and also had a direct line of sight to the podium. The
> >>>> kid in room A was texting more
> >>>> than he was paying attention, at least that was the case when I was in
> >>>> that room watching
> >>>> presentations. I saw one presentation melt down and the kid was
> >>>> unhelpful with trying to save the
> >>>> day. His first move should have been to ask for a short pause and to
> >>>> restart the house computer and
> >>>> projector, see if that fixed the problems.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not sure if all the panel heads did this, but Sara Velez insisted that
> >>>> my group gather together the
> >>>> afternoon before our presentations, test our own computers and/or load
> >>>> and test our media on the
> >>>> house computer. This is where I found out that the house computer didn't
> >>>> have the fonts I used in
> >>>> Powerpoint, so I was grateful to have brought a PDF version of my
> >>>> slides, which worked perfectly. I
> >>>> would have asked to pre-test my presentation in any case, but I am
> >>>> thankful that Sara was well
> >>>> organized.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here's a question we might ponder before KC -- would it be better to put
> >>>> both speakers closer
> >>>> together near the screen? Hard to say if this will interfere with
> >>>> audience seeing the screen. The
> >>>> way the speakers were spaced, as Mike Biel pointed out, no way you hear
> >>>> proper stereo. However,
> >>>> there is audio coverage on both sides of the room. That was helpful
> >>>> during the big sessions in the
> >>>> morning, but less so when the rooms weren't full. My bet is, everyone
> >>>> could hear just fine if the
> >>>> speakers were grouped closer in a central location, and then
> >>>> presentation audio might sound better.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is a good topic. I'm sure everyone has either experienced
> >>>> first-hand or watched a presentation
> >>>> meltdown. I've seen some doozies with my company's conferences,
> >>>> especially in the early years of
> >>>> laptops and powerpoints (ah, good old Windows 95/98 -- semi-stable at
> >>>> best on a generic desktop,
> >>>> mostly unstable on any laptop of that era). I'd often have to be the guy
> >>>> with the shovel behind the
> >>>> elephant parade. That's where the KISS ethic was drilled into my head
> >>>> when it comes to media -- use
> >>>> something well-established and as near bulletproof as you can find.
> >>>> Never use cutting-edge anything.
> >>>> By my definitions, embedded AV is definitely still cutting edge.
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Tom Fine
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Cary Ginell"<[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> To:<[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:54 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Presenting to a College classes / mic or not to
> >>>> mic
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, I wasn't too happy with the sound tech that we had at ARSC.
> >>>> The biggest mistake was
> >>>> placing him behind a wall so that he did not have direct eye contact
> >>>> with the presenter. A BIG
> >>>> problem for almost everyone. He didn't do a good job of monitoring
> >>>> volume levels and had to be
> >>>> chased down when he wasn't paying attention or was out of the room. When
> >>>> a technical problem reared
> >>>> its head, however, he always seemed to know what to do, but he didn't
> >>>> seem enthusiastic as some
> >>>> engineers we've had in the past and he wasn't always ready to offer
> >>>> solutions to problems that
> >>>> cropped up. I made it clear weeks in advance that I had audio, video,
> >>>> and PowerPoint that needed
> >>>> juggling, but I ended up having to run the PowerPoint and the video from
> >>>> the podium, which wasted
> >>>> precious seconds switching from one to the other. There were also
> >>>> occasions where I wanted him to
> >>>> fade something down early, but I couldn't see him so he never got the
> >>>> message, even when I was
> >>>> forced to tell him over the mike to do so.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cary Ginell
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:28:53 -0700
> >>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Presenting to a College classes / mic or not to
> >>>> mic
> >>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A good sound tech, Im assuming that one will be on hand, can balance
> >>>> the
> >>>> amplified vocal mic
> >>>>> so that it sounds like your natural voice....... good luck with you
> >>>> presentation
> >>>>> d nelson ward
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Beautiful Music you will never forget, at;
> >>>> http://www.americanbeautiful.**podbean.com/<http://www.americanbeautiful.podbean.com/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________**__
> >>>>> From: "[log in to unmask]"<[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:16 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Presenting to a College classes
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It also depends on the voice of the speaker. Yes, actors, singers and
> >>>> politicians have been
> >>>>> speaking and singing for centuries without mics, but they also trained
> >>>> for years on how to do it.
> >>>>> They developed their voices for the task. If you have ever been to a
> >>>> performance and heard a well
> >>>>> trained and disciplined but unamplified voice, you know how moving it
> >>>> can be. If you've ever heard
> >>>>> someone try to do this with an untrained voice, you can appreciate the
> >>>> difference.
> >>>>> Some voices just carry. As an example, most of us have probably heard
> >>>> Mike Biel speak. Or even
> >>>>> laugh in the audience. He is someone who can do it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are accounts of the Gettysburg Address being received poorly, for
> >>>> one reason, because of
> >>>>> Lincoln's weak voice. Hey, I do remember something from elementary
> >>>> school. Amazing what we choose
> >>>>> to remember sometimes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So Mr. Graham may have to make a decision here. To mic or not to mic,
> >>>> that is the question.
> >>>>> joe salerno
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/22/2012 3:37 AM, Don Cox wrote:
> >>>>>> On 21/05/2012, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Don't use a microphone.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If the room is large, there will not be a choice about using a mic.
> >>>>>> I regularly used a big lecture theatre with audiences of around
> >>>> 150-200
> >>>>>> without a microphone. If you talk to the back row, everyone can hear
> >>>>>> you. You can even ask the back row if they can hear you.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> Dennis D. Rooney
> >>> 303 W. 66th Street, 9HE
> >>> New York, NY 10023
> >>> 212.874.9626
> >>>
> >>>
 		 	   		  

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