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ARSCLIST  June 2012

ARSCLIST June 2012

Subject:

Re: victor record conservation

From:

Michael Biel <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:00:24 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (138 lines)

From: H D Goldman <[log in to unmask]>

> The common contaminant to all pressed disc recordings &
> the most difficult to safely remove is the mold release wax.

What is mold release wax?  Is it something that is part of the mix of
the material of the record?  You include it in discussing all materials
"[lacquer, acetate, Diamond Disc & vinyl]" which include discs which are
not pressed.  I have visited pressing plants using vinyl and styrene,
and have seen films of many different eras of shellac and early vinyl
pressing, and never once have I seen any hint of an application of any
surface material in the record press other than inserting or injecting
the record compound.  The stampers are never coated with anything
between pressings.  The records all come off the press without any
problem whatsoever, and often they are immediately sleeved.  

> It is also the most difficult material to safely & thoroughly
> remove from the surface of a new phonograph record.

So, what is mold release wax?  Since there is no evidence that the
stampers are coated, if it is part of the chemical makeup of the record,
how could this be a removable surface coating?  

Mike Biel  [log in to unmask]  



> This wax is poorly soluble in the pure, water-soluble, simple alcohols [methanol, ethanol, isopropanol & n-propanol]; less so when diluted with water. Bugs love this wax & while it is difficult for thoroughly cleaned disc surfaces [lacquer, acetate, Diamond Disc & vinyl] to support mold growth, once infestation is established by feeding on the mold release wax, all of these disc surfaces can be permanently damaged. For used discs a variety of contaminants including fingerprints & the micro dust from old sleeves increase the chance for mold growth.

Generically speaking record cleaning is performed by sufficiently
agitating a solution within the groove to safely & effectively wash the
walls. 

We've demonstrated for over 25 yrs. that it is possible to safely &
thoroughly clean all of these surfaces with a blend of highly rinsable,
broad-based surfactants that includes a small but critical amount of
analytical reagent grade n-propanol. There is an audible difference when
the alcohol is excluded. 

With regards to use on Diamond Discs, Richard Warren, Curator of Yale's
Historical Sound Recordings Collection has been using our standard
product for years. He volunteered remarks at the ARSC meeting years ago
in Nashville, that he obtained superior cleaning of Diamond Discs with
our fluids & applicator, even with pressings from a period known for
poor surfaces.

All the discs used for the award winning "Lost Sounds" collection from
the crew at Archeophone were cleaned with our system. 

As many of us like to make up our own cleaning concoctions, please note
that household cleaning products rarely rinse clean from disc phonograph
recordings; & I did say a small amount of a specific reagent grade
alcohol. Methanol & isopropyl alcohol are not recommended, nor is
denatured ethanol or your favorite vodka. While wetting agents can
improve the ability of water to penetrate the groove, they do not
inherently offer superior cleaning. Nonetheless, pairing wetting agents
with highly focused vacuum -based fluid removal [i.e. Keith
Monks/Loricraft] can improve performance. This same limitation was
recently observed in comparing manual surfactant based cleaning to the
use of a wetting solution in a well built device employing an ultrasonic
bath. 

Lastly, with respect to the re-birth of the Spin Clean device, I'm
puzzled by one observation. Most of us don't reuse the water we bathe
in, use to brush our teeth, wash dishes or clothes in, so why is it such
a good idea for phonograph records? The record may be cleaner than it
was but it is exposed to all the contaminants accumulating in the bath.
The supplied cleaning fluid is less than thorough no matter how it's
used, although a quick pass with a Keith Monks/Loricraft would be quite
helpful. ; >) 

Unfortunately both the Spin Clean & the sonicator [more than 40X the
price of the former] were reviewed by the same person & both given
positive recommendation. In keeping with this sort of evaluation, I'm
often reminded that a warm solution of urea & uric acid also gives
reasonable results when applied to most disc recording.

I mean no criticism of the preferences of others as our goals may
differ. A properly setup mid-fi system can reveal the differences
between clean & thoroughly cleaned discs. The enhanced resolution
increases listening pleasure, makes it easier to evaluate recordings &
equipment as well as setting a reference point for digital playback.
We're currently evaluating alternate methods for cleaning fresh lacquers
prior to plating with the aim of improved resolution & quieter
background.

Regards,

Duane Goldman


On Jun 10, 2012, at 2:48 PM, Tom Fine wrote:

> Mike, agree that arguments always arise, but it's important to mention NO ALCOHOL in whatever solution you use for shellac, right? Just in case someone doesn't know ...
> 
> BTW, now to wade into the inevitable argument ... I haven't tried it but it looks to me like the Spin-Clean would be a good low-cost solution for 78's
> http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/
> 
> THAT SAID, if I were buying it, I would contact the company and ask them point-blank if they guarantee their solution is alcohol-free and safe for shellac before using it on your 78's.
> 
> The reason I like this machine is that it keeps the label dry but thoroughly soaks the groove area, and it's less sloppy than a slop-sink and sponge.
> 
> -- Tom Fine
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Biel" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] victor record conservation
> 
> 
> From: Patrick Sumner <[log in to unmask]>
>> To whom it may concern: wondering if someone knows how to clean vintage
>> "Victor" records-a few have a green mold, most are just stored vertically in
>> the area below the player. Also, would there be anyone in the Louisville,
>> Ky area able to "check-out" the functions.many thanks, patrick
> 
> The "functions" of what????
> 
> There's very little in shellac records for mold to grow on. The problem
> possibly is with the sleeves, and especially the cardboard of any
> albums. It will probably clean off by cleaning them the usual way
> (arguments always arise when record cleaning is mentioned) but the
> sleeves and album covers will reinfect the cleaned records if they are
> the problem. And the wood and varnish of the player might also be a
> problem. The insides of the player need to be dried out, aired out, and
> possibly sealed. You don't mention the vintage of either the player or
> the records. Is it a wind-up and these are acoustical records, or is it
> a modern console? Stored in a damp basement?
> 
> Mike Biel [log in to unmask]
> 

H D Goldman Lagniappe Chemicals Ltd. 
PO Box 37066 St. Louis, MO 63141 USA
v/f 314 205 1388 [log in to unmask]

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