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ARSCLIST  August 2012

ARSCLIST August 2012

Subject:

Re: Man of La Mancha CD release -- I've changed my mind

From:

Stewart Gooderman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 8 Aug 2012 13:33:16 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

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text/plain (95 lines)

This is fascinating.

I don't have the equipment to do what you've done, but it puts recording companies to shame.

What's even worse is when they release a version with the wrong takes, and subsequently admit that the incorrect takes were used, and not correcting the error, as Sony did with several less popular broadway cast recordings.

DrG

On Aug 8, 2012, at 9:46 AM, Richard L. Hess wrote:

> Thank you very much, Dr. G. That is most interesting.
> 
> Interestingly, what I found was that the first CD issue of the OBC on CD sounded nothing like the LP. There was reverb and compression on the LP and there was little (if any) of either on the first CD. Once I added compression and room simulation to the first CD it sounded much more like the LP without the flaws and loss of highs in the LP. I did change the EQ slightly--a very wide bump up about 2 dB at 300 Hz for warmth and shelf rolloff of about 2 dB above a couple of kHz.
> 
> I am happy without giving MCA more of my money. I'm quite frankly annoyed at the number of CDs that were sold and then resold as "remastered". I don't enjoy the business model of "sell 'em junk they'll never know the difference...ooops, they do know the difference, well let's sell 'em something new that's better and was really what we should have issued in the first place."
> 
> On at least one "remastered" CD, Joan Baez's "David's Album", the original CD and the "remastered" one, on a song-by-song basis, is the same at least for the two or three songs I tried. I mean the same in that I can flip the phase on one of them and null it against the other. The only thing that changed was the location of the track marks, so I had to realign the time base for each song that I tried. They were not new transfers because the likelihood of the two aligning time-wise over the length of a song is slim. By the way, trying to null the LP and the CD is quite interesting as the eccentricity of the LP becomes the dominant variation, but it never nulls anywhere like the two CDs.
> 
> The LP and most of the Vanguard CDs capture the warmth of the original recordings, but in the case of "David's Album" the CD is tinny and narrow-band compared to the LP.
> 
> Again, thanks for the info.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> On 2012-08-07 8:04 PM, Stewart Gooderman wrote:
>> The Original New York Cast Recording of Man of LaMancha was recorded in 1965 by Kapp Records. The Kapp catalog was absorbed by MCA, and when the CD format arrived, MCA released the recording on CD at regular price, then a stripped down release at a budget price. These releases were probably dubbed directly from Lp masters and the release is noted for it's poor sound.
>> 
>> The MCA holdings were absorbed by Universal, and there was extended release program of most of what Universal now owned in theatre recordings at the beginning of this century. Man of LaMancha was re-released in this series with a remastering that increased the sound quality.
>> 
>> DrG
>> 
>> On Aug 7, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Shai Drori wrote:
>> 
>>> HOLLY MOLLY. What is that? WOW.
>>> Okay, I have the 1965 OBC on LP and CD. I like that fact that the one listed under it is the Israeli cast. Didn't know there was one. Is Rich referring to this recording from 1965 or another?
>>> Shai
>>> בתאריך 07/08/12 10:18 PM, ציטוט Thom:
>>>> Shai,
>>>> 
>>>> Take a look at castalbums.org:
>>>> 
>>>> http://castalbums.org/shows/Man-of-La-Mancha/213
>>>> 
>>>> (And David Hummel's book for pre-1981 releases)
>>>> 
>>>> Thom Pease
>>>> Recorded Sound Cataloger
>>>> Library of Congress
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>> My CD of Man of La Mancha I bought way earlier than that but can't remember
>>>>> the dates. How many versions are out there?
>>>>> Shai
>>>>> בתאריך 07/08/12 7:51 PM, ציטוט Richard L. Hess:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi, All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have revised my assumption that the early 2000s release of Man of
>>>>>> LaMancha OBC on CD was erroneously transferred without AME equalization.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What I think really happened was that the mastering engineer MASTERED it
>>>>>> and they used a good, clean upstream copy that was a little bright (but not
>>>>>> peaky bright like AME) and used that for the CD. Although there are a couple
>>>>>> of ticks during the finale which could be a CD pressing issue or??
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway, with the addition of some compression and room simulation, I now
>>>>>> have something that approaches the LP's sound without the drawbacks of
>>>>>> listening to a digitization of the LP.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Finally, I am happy in regards to this and I thought the two or three
>>>>>> people out there who have been following this would like to know I revised
>>>>>> my opinion of what I had bought.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> בברכה,
>>>>> שי דרורי
>>>>> מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.
>>> -- 
>>> בברכה,
>>> שי דרורי
>>> מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.
> 
> -- 
> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
> Aurora, Ontario, Canada           (905) 713 6733     1-877-TAPE-FIX
> http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm
> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.

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