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ARSCLIST  September 2012

ARSCLIST September 2012

Subject:

Re: Details on vinyl to digital re-mastering

From:

Roger Kulp <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Roger Kulp <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 7 Sep 2012 17:52:14 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (95 lines)

 Did Richard Mohr and Lewis Layton willingly go along with this? Or


 Did Richard Mohr and Lewis Layton willingly go along with this? Or did they have any say at all?I know they handled some of the early Dynagroove Lps.

Roger




________________________________
 From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Details on vinyl to digital re-mastering
 
When the first Dynagroove record came out -- I think it was a Mahler symphony by Leinsdorf/BSO --  RCA made a huge splash, including lengthy technical essays in the album packaging plus much publicity in trade publications and hifi mags. There were probably some moments of fear and loathing among competitors -- until they put the first Dynagroove LPs on their turntables, took a listen and laughed loudly.

RCA ruined a major competitive weapon -- their excellent sound quality -- in one ill-conceived move. Until Dynagroove, RCA was making classical records of a sound quality usually on par with the smaller quality-oriented labels, but with RCA's superior roster of famous musicians and conductors. Their pressing plant in Indiana was the best in the US.  The point is that they were already putting out excellent records and didn't need to upset the apple cart. There's probably a business school case study in why you'd mess so drastically with that formula. And then, they stubbornly stuck with Dynagroove even after it was panned. And then, in the late 60's, they came out with paper-thin Dynaflex records. It's interesting how a company that ushered in many technical innovations over the years, and established a very strong quality-oriented culture, went down such a wrong path and then stuck on it until the end.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Tait" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Details on vinyl to digital re-mastering


I'd like to add my voice to Tom's about Dynagroove LPs. They were a major "retro" step around 1963. In addition to the sonic faults cited so far, another was the squashing of dynamic range. As we know, Ravel's Bolero is among other things a very long crescendo, beginning extremely quietly and gradually building to a loud climax. Charles Munch's last (1962) Boston Symphony recording of Bolero, released on LM/LSC-2664, begins as loudly as it ends. There is no dynamic range to speak of. Speaking metaphorically, what happens is that the sound becomes progressively thicker in sonority rather than changing dynamically. And some Dynagroove LPs indeed had distortion. Morton Gould's circa 1965 recording of his Spirituals with the Chicago Symphony (I don't have the catalogue number to hand) is extraordinarily sonorous and tonally rich on the Red Seal stereo Dynagroove LP, but the climaxes are seriously overloaded. But as has been said, some Dynagroove LPs were
 better than others. Especially later in the series, when they seemed to back off a bit from the manipulation.

Dynagroove reminds me of what a late friend used to say, paraphrasing David Letterman: "another stupid RCA trick." My experience has parallelled Tom's: the CD reissues are better.

Don Tait







-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
To: ARSCLIST <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2012 5:24 am
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Details on vinyl to digital re-mastering


Hi Evan:

Most RCA stuff from the dynagroove era got released on CD. My advice is, find
the CD. Dynagroove was
a bad idea. Often, it was a badly executed bad idea. Some of those records sound
so bad they are not
fixable because of the sibilance problem you mentioned. There might be some
gold-plated,
made-in-the-moonlight-by-virgins megabux cartridge that doesn't splash that kind
of high-frequency
energy, but I doubt it since i think the overload was in the cutterhead, so it's
baked in.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan MacBeth" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 12:19 AM
Subject: [ARSCLIST] Details on vinyl to digital re-mastering


Hi all,

Only moderately off track, does anyone have any particular tips for transferring
Stereo RCA
Dynagroove discs from the early 60s? The disc i'm trying to copy has such an
over-the-top top end. I
intend to reduce the top end a bit, but does anyone know if Dynagroove used a
specific top end
boost?

In addition, certain sibilant syllables from the vocalist distort terribly while
others in the same
song do not - but if i sum the two channels to mono the sibilance doesn't
distort at all. Whether
this is down to the vocalist's mic technique or not, i wouldn't know - i don't
have any other
Dynagroove albums to compare this to. Also, this is a brand new disc, it was
still sealed until i
cracked it open on Tuesday (and yes, it needed a clean!) but i've had the same
problem in the same
place with other copies too.

Any tips at all?
Cheers,
Evan.

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