... And don't forget that some "unpublished" radio broadcasts were
copyrighted by depositing the script at the LOC and copyrighting that.

I've run into syndicated, network and even local shows that were
handled that way.

rand

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Sam Brylawski <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> While we're at this, know that the situation for WOR and other
> broadcasting recordings is worse than you might imagine. U.S. law
> considers broadcasts "unpublished." The exception to this is if they
> were syndicated, i.e., distributed as transcriptions as opposed to
> over the air. Of course this is hypothetical in WOR's case as no
> pre-1972 recordings are covered by federal law. But if they were
> protected under federal law the term would be 120 years from the date
> of creation.
>
> Good news/bad news: As I recall, when LC received the WOR collection
> from GenCorp, in the Instrument of Gift GenCorp relinquished its own
> rights to them. But at the same time, they attached strings to that. I
> forget exactly what or how. But I think that they were saying, we're
> generously donating rights, but that doesn't cover the rights of the
> actors, musicians, writers, other union members, etc. WOR's original
> contracts with those parties probably stated that they were being
> compensated for their services *to a broadcast.* "After-market" was
> not anticipated or covered in those contracts. See the Peggy Lee-"Lady
> and the Tramp" lawsuit for an example of that issue.
>
> Best wishes to the younger people on this list, those who will live to
> 2067 and be able to enjoy and study things like the WOR collection
> legally.
>
> Sam Brylawski
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Hi James:
>>
>> I hear you loud and clear. I don't blame the LOC for the screwy copyright
>> laws, and indeed many LOC employees are members of ARSC, which is actively
>> lobbying to loosen the laws so citizens may have more widely-available
>> access to the LOC's contents.
>>
>> I think you hear my frustrations clearly, as I hear yours.
>>
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolf, James L" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:52 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
>>
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> For better and for worse, copyright is not contingent on monetary value, nor
>> upon the specific conditions of a work's creation.
>>
>> Like most everyone else in the archiving community, I agree that US
>> copyright terms are ludicrous, especially on sound recordings - so I share
>> your frustration. But I also have to sympathize with the LOC as an
>> institution. As the administrator of copyright, it is completely bound to
>> follow the law. I've commented before that its copyright functions put it at
>> cross-purposes with its role as the nation's library. But until Congress
>> splits off copyright and grants special dispensation to skirt the law, this
>> is how things will be.
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:06 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
>>
>> Well hopefully the BBC will put it online. I can't imagine it has one penny
>> of monetary value, so this whole discussion of ownership and rights is
>> ridiculous, it should be out in the public domain already (note that it
>> would be in the UK). Plus, it wouldn't have been possible without access to
>> the publicly-funded NYC subway system, which I believe operated at that time
>> (and operates to this
>> day) with a heavy subsidy from federal  taxes, hence partial ownership by
>> every U.S. citizen.
>>
>> Yet another case of something the preservation and maintenance of which is
>> funded by those who can't get any access to it (unless they live local to
>> Washington DC and can take the time to wade through the LOC access rules and
>> listen to it in person, which may well cost them extra money). Very
>> frustrating!
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Wolf, James L" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
>>
>>
>> LOC could not post this online without permission from rightsholders. The
>> same would be necessary to
>> obtain a private copy from LC. So that would be BBC, whoever now owns the
>> rights to WOR, and
>> possibly the heirs of Dick Willard.
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Personal opinions only. Not a statement of official LC policy, etc.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>> Tom Fine
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:43 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
>>
>> How does one get a copy of this recording? Can LOC post it online?
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
>>
>>
>>> A copy exists at the Library of Congress. See:
>>> http://lccn.loc.gov/2002660082
>>>
>>> Thom Pease
>>> Library of Congress
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Chris J Brady <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Television_%26_Radio
>>>>
>>>> CJB
>>>>
>>> LC control no.: 2002660082
>>> LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2002660082
>>> Type of material: Nonmusic Sound Recording
>>> Main title: New York subways [sound recording].
>>> Published/Created: 1948.
>>> Description: 2 sound discs : analog, 33 1/3 rpm ; 16 in.
>>> Related names Willard, Dick.
>>> WOR (Radio station : New York, N.Y.)
>>> British Broadcasting Corporation.
>>> Performer: WOR reporters: Dick Willard ... [et al.]
>>> Credits: Presented by radio station WOR in cooperation with the BBC.
>>> Summary: A radio documentary that examines the New York City subway
>>> system. WOR reporters talk to various employees of the subway system
>>> including a dispatcher, brakeman, signal maintenance man, staff member
>>> of the lost and found, and a police officer. Includes a discussion of
>>> the engineering system and its costs. Closes with an interview with a
>>> nineteen-year-old female passenger, who was named Miss Subway of the
>>> Month.
>>> Subjects: Subways --New York (State) --New York.
>>> Local transit --New York (State) --New York.
>>> Form/Genre: Documentary radio programs.
>>> Notes: Recorded Jan. 28, 1948, by WOR, New York, for broadcast in
>>> Great Britain.
>>> Additional formats: Preservation master. Washington, D.C. : Library
>>> of Congress Magnetic Recording Laboratory, 1968. On 1 sound tape reel
>>> : analog, 7 1/2 ips, 2 track, mono. ; 10 in.
>>> LC classification: LWO 5520 r12A1-3 (preservation master)
>>> CALL NUMBER: LWO 5520 r12 (preservation master)
>>> -- Request in: Request in advance in Rec Sound Ref Center (Madison, LM113)
>>> -- Status: Not Charged
>>>
>>