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Dear all,
I want to thank everyone for taking the time to contribute your suggestions
for finding the WOR radio doc on New York's Subways. I may still have an
uphill battle, but now I have some really strong leads.
I really appreciate all the help.
Best,
Nellie
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Randy A. Riddle <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> ... And don't forget that some "unpublished" radio broadcasts were
> copyrighted by depositing the script at the LOC and copyrighting that.
>
> I've run into syndicated, network and even local shows that were
> handled that way.
>
> rand
>
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Sam Brylawski <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > While we're at this, know that the situation for WOR and other
> > broadcasting recordings is worse than you might imagine. U.S. law
> > considers broadcasts "unpublished." The exception to this is if they
> > were syndicated, i.e., distributed as transcriptions as opposed to
> > over the air. Of course this is hypothetical in WOR's case as no
> > pre-1972 recordings are covered by federal law. But if they were
> > protected under federal law the term would be 120 years from the date
> > of creation.
> >
> > Good news/bad news: As I recall, when LC received the WOR collection
> > from GenCorp, in the Instrument of Gift GenCorp relinquished its own
> > rights to them. But at the same time, they attached strings to that. I
> > forget exactly what or how. But I think that they were saying, we're
> > generously donating rights, but that doesn't cover the rights of the
> > actors, musicians, writers, other union members, etc. WOR's original
> > contracts with those parties probably stated that they were being
> > compensated for their services *to a broadcast.* "After-market" was
> > not anticipated or covered in those contracts. See the Peggy Lee-"Lady
> > and the Tramp" lawsuit for an example of that issue.
> >
> > Best wishes to the younger people on this list, those who will live to
> > 2067 and be able to enjoy and study things like the WOR collection
> > legally.
> >
> > Sam Brylawski
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >> Hi James:
> >>
> >> I hear you loud and clear. I don't blame the LOC for the screwy
> copyright
> >> laws, and indeed many LOC employees are members of ARSC, which is
> actively
> >> lobbying to loosen the laws so citizens may have more widely-available
> >> access to the LOC's contents.
> >>
> >> I think you hear my frustrations clearly, as I hear yours.
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wolf, James L" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:52 AM
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> For better and for worse, copyright is not contingent on monetary
> value, nor
> >> upon the specific conditions of a work's creation.
> >>
> >> Like most everyone else in the archiving community, I agree that US
> >> copyright terms are ludicrous, especially on sound recordings - so I
> share
> >> your frustration. But I also have to sympathize with the LOC as an
> >> institution. As the administrator of copyright, it is completely bound
> to
> >> follow the law. I've commented before that its copyright functions put
> it at
> >> cross-purposes with its role as the nation's library. But until Congress
> >> splits off copyright and grants special dispensation to skirt the law,
> this
> >> is how things will be.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Fine
> >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:06 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
> >>
> >> Well hopefully the BBC will put it online. I can't imagine it has one
> penny
> >> of monetary value, so this whole discussion of ownership and rights is
> >> ridiculous, it should be out in the public domain already (note that it
> >> would be in the UK). Plus, it wouldn't have been possible without
> access to
> >> the publicly-funded NYC subway system, which I believe operated at that
> time
> >> (and operates to this
> >> day) with a heavy subsidy from federal taxes, hence partial ownership
> by
> >> every U.S. citizen.
> >>
> >> Yet another case of something the preservation and maintenance of which
> is
> >> funded by those who can't get any access to it (unless they live local
> to
> >> Washington DC and can take the time to wade through the LOC access
> rules and
> >> listen to it in person, which may well cost them extra money). Very
> >> frustrating!
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Wolf, James L" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:53 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
> >>
> >>
> >> LOC could not post this online without permission from rightsholders.
> The
> >> same would be necessary to
> >> obtain a private copy from LC. So that would be BBC, whoever now owns
> the
> >> rights to WOR, and
> >> possibly the heirs of Dick Willard.
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Personal opinions only. Not a statement of official LC policy, etc.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> >> Tom Fine
> >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:43 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
> >>
> >> How does one get a copy of this recording? Can LOC post it online?
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thom" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 8:13 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] New York Subways Radio Documentary
> >>
> >>
> >>> A copy exists at the Library of Congress. See:
> >>> http://lccn.loc.gov/2002660082
> >>>
> >>> Thom Pease
> >>> Library of Congress
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Chris J Brady <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Have you tried
> >>>>
> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Television_%26_Radio
> >>>>
> >>>> CJB
> >>>>
> >>> LC control no.: 2002660082
> >>> LCCN permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2002660082
> >>> Type of material: Nonmusic Sound Recording
> >>> Main title: New York subways [sound recording].
> >>> Published/Created: 1948.
> >>> Description: 2 sound discs : analog, 33 1/3 rpm ; 16 in.
> >>> Related names Willard, Dick.
> >>> WOR (Radio station : New York, N.Y.)
> >>> British Broadcasting Corporation.
> >>> Performer: WOR reporters: Dick Willard ... [et al.]
> >>> Credits: Presented by radio station WOR in cooperation with the BBC.
> >>> Summary: A radio documentary that examines the New York City subway
> >>> system. WOR reporters talk to various employees of the subway system
> >>> including a dispatcher, brakeman, signal maintenance man, staff member
> >>> of the lost and found, and a police officer. Includes a discussion of
> >>> the engineering system and its costs. Closes with an interview with a
> >>> nineteen-year-old female passenger, who was named Miss Subway of the
> >>> Month.
> >>> Subjects: Subways --New York (State) --New York.
> >>> Local transit --New York (State) --New York.
> >>> Form/Genre: Documentary radio programs.
> >>> Notes: Recorded Jan. 28, 1948, by WOR, New York, for broadcast in
> >>> Great Britain.
> >>> Additional formats: Preservation master. Washington, D.C. : Library
> >>> of Congress Magnetic Recording Laboratory, 1968. On 1 sound tape reel
> >>> : analog, 7 1/2 ips, 2 track, mono. ; 10 in.
> >>> LC classification: LWO 5520 r12A1-3 (preservation master)
> >>> CALL NUMBER: LWO 5520 r12 (preservation master)
> >>> -- Request in: Request in advance in Rec Sound Ref Center (Madison,
> LM113)
> >>> -- Status: Not Charged
> >>>
> >>
>
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