LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for ARSCLIST Archives


ARSCLIST Archives

ARSCLIST Archives


[email protected]


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST Home

ARSCLIST  April 2013

ARSCLIST April 2013

Subject:

Re: revisiting an old thread -- jazz anthologies

From:

David Goren <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 7 Apr 2013 11:00:46 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

Tom, I think you're unfairly lumping all free or experimental jazz into one, er, lump.Within that scene there are many variations of style and approach. Some were pretenders, some were the real deal and seriously trying to stretch the form. Also, if perhaps the records didn't sell much compared to fusion, groups like the World Saxophone Quartet, Cecil Taylor, the Sun Ra Arkestra, and Ornette Coleman (and many others) could fill up clubs and theaters with enthusiastic audiences. In fact, before Wynton and the attendant young lions told hold in the early 80's many of the free jazz groups kept the acoustic flame burning. Also, there were (and are) many players like Don Pullen, George Adams, and David Murray whose stylistic reach was wide. They could take a song from more traditional jazz forms all the way to free and back again.

I've done a lot of jazz interviews and oral histories over the past twenty years and I've been struck by how many times more traditional jazz musicians have said that even if they themselves didn't play free their ears were open to it and influenced their playing.

Dave Lewis wrote:

> Free will never fit into the
> Lincoln Center fossilization of jazz, though I do note
> that John Zorn will be celebrating his 60th birthday there this year.

JALC has fitfully nodded in the direction of free jazz. In that past they have had the Sam Rivers Orchestra, and the JALC Orchestra has played the music of Ornette. Cecil Taylor played a double bill with John Zorn a couple of years back, and this year the remnant of Sun Ra's Arkestra led by Marshall Allen will be playing there. Paul Motian and Lee Konitz played a wonderful set of concerts in 2001 that were completely freely improvised. In fact you can hear it at jalc.org. I wrote and produced the radio program version of that one.



> 
> UD
> Lebanon, OH
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> 
>> Related to this original thread, here is the National Endowment for the
>> Arts (ie the taxpayers' dime) curriculum for jazz in the schools:
>> http://www.**neajazzintheschools.org/**lesson1/index.php?uv=s<http://www.neajazzintheschools.org/lesson1/index.php?uv=s>
>> This would be The Canon as far as public education is concerned.
>> 
>> Look at Lessons 3-5. Where is ANYTHING about soul-jazz or acid-jazz? There
>> sure is a lot about free-jazz, yet no mention of how few copies most of
>> those recordings sold because they were unfriendly and inaccessible to the
>> casual listener. There's a brief mention of Latin-jazz (which was HUGE as
>> far as cultural impact and record sales), mentioning only Stan Getz.
>> There's not much of anything about fusion (probably a safe bet that Weather
>> Report, Mahavishnu Orchestra and Herbie Hancock sold thousands or millions
>> more records than all the free-jazz albums combined) and nothing about the
>> success of smooth-jazz.
>> 
>> So the taxpayers' dime seems to have been spent to adopt the Ken Burns
>> view of jazz. Great stuff!
>> 
>> 
>> -- Tom Fine
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cary Ginell" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 12:01 PM
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] revisiting an old thread -- jazz anthologies
>> 
>> 
>> Check out Randy's performance on "Some of These Days."
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=9hh7ErxlgBc<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hh7ErxlgBc>
>> 
>> Cary Ginell
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 6:54 AM, Carl Pultz <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Cary - I have not heard him. BTW, I haven't kept up with Wynton's
>>> work, but the band he had on NPR for last New Year's Eve was smokin'! And
>>> was mostly about exploring trad space. I loved it. It would be worth the
>>> time to read the Burns interview text. Wynton might have gone out on a
>>> limb,
>>> but the form and nature of a broadcast documentary just can't be relied on
>>> to reflect the nuance of complex meanings. I take that as an absolute
>>> rule.
>>> But, I think television is a tragedy even when it isn't being a travesty.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]**GOV <[log in to unmask]>] On
>>> Behalf Of Cary Ginell
>>> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 9:25 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] revisiting an old thread -- jazz anthologies
>>> 
>>> Randy Sandke, incidentally, is a wonderful trumpet/cornet player who is a
>>> huge Bix fan. I believe he's sat in with Vince Giordano on more than one
>>> occasion.
>>> 
>>> Cary
>>> 
>>> On Apr 5, 2013, at 6:16 AM, "Carl Pultz" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Fascinating discussion - thank you, all.
>>>> 
>>>> I recommend a book I recently read: "Where the Dark and the Light
>>>> Folks
>>>> Meet: Race and the Mythology, Politics, and Business of Jazz" by
>>>> Randall Sandke. As with any study of such a complex subject, it should
>>>> not represent a definitive or final judgment on the history of the
>>>> music. It does reflect the experience of musicians I've known, for
>>>> whom the late 60s and early 70s were a heart-breaking time of
>>>> exclusion and distrust. It gets at some very uncomfortable things.
>>>> 
>>>> The research also makes the Burns series dominant model of two racial
>>>> tracks, parallel but isolated, appear that much more absurd. But, it
>>>> is PBS and it is KEN BURNS, both brands that have a lot invested in
>>>> mainstream consensus and pretty pictures and golden memories,
>>>> calculated to liberate the check-books of "viewers like you."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.LOC.GOV

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager