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ARSCLIST  April 2013

ARSCLIST April 2013

Subject:

Re: Sticky SHRED

From:

Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 1 Apr 2013 17:24:46 -0400

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Right, that's where I'm going with my questions too.

The reason I asked the second question is I'm wondering if some sort of chemistry breakdown gets 
more "hard set" the longer the tape goes unbaked, but if that breakdown doesn't keep getting worse 
after a tape is baked the first time (ie the tape goes back to needing baking, but not ever-longer 
baking if it gets baked every XX years)?

There are still conflicting theories on exactly what causes sticky-shed, no?

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peoples, Curtis" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sticky SHRED


> We have stored our tapes for ten years in an environment averaging 68 degrees F and a RH of about 
> 33%.  It used to take 4-6 hours to bake a tape. We are now at 8 hours. I  am interested to know 
> why these tapes are now taking longer.
>
> Curtis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf 
> Of Tom Fine
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 3:42 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sticky SHRED
>
> Any theories as to why baking times are increasing?
>
> Also, are you finding you need the longer baking times for re-bakes as well as first-time bakes?
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marie O'Connell" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sticky SHRED
>
>
> Hi Shai
>
> No, I don't find it alarming at all.  I have been baking for longer periods
> now for a few years as 8 hours just wasn't enough and I had to keep putting
> the reel back in the oven.
>
> Cheers
> Marie
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Marie
>> Do you find this as alarming as I have that baking times have risen so
>> high in the last few years? My record was set last year with Ampex 480
>> quarter inch 2500' tapes needing 5 days to be playable. Really slowed down
>> operations.
>> Cheers
>> Shai
>> בתאריך 01/04/13 9:15 PM, ציטוט Marie O'Connell:
>>
>>> I agree with Richard.  I have seen quite a bit of this recently with Ampex
>>> 456.  And it does make a real mess.  I am also finding BASF and AGFA doing
>>> this too.  They all appear to be slightly too wide for the tape path.
>>>
>>> I have been baking for much longer periods also, 3 days would be normal
>>> for
>>> me now.
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Richard L. Hess <[log in to unmask]
>>> >**wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi, Curtis,
>>>>
>>>> I've been baking longer, but edge shedding as you describe is common if
>>>> the tape is slit a bit wide (hard to measure, but that is why the event
>>>> is
>>>> so random--it might be one reel out of a jumbo roll where the slitting
>>>> blades were mis-adjusted).
>>>>
>>>> I don't think 24 hours (my norm these days) would show a difference as I
>>>> saw this off some 1/2-inch 456 just recently, but it was only the edge.
>>>>
>>>> It is frightening, but I'd just vacuum up the little hairs and be done
>>>> with it. Remember, those are about a mil wide and you're dealing with
>>>> nominally 82-mil (minimum spec'd is 75 mil from Ampex) track width that
>>>> doesn't even go completely to the edge, so you probably don't have any
>>>> sound on the little hairs. (I did want to write "hares" in honour of the
>>>> season. <smile>)
>>>>
>>>> I would check for debris in the corners of the guides (where the face
>>>> meets the top and bottom caps) which can exacerbate this hair-shred but,
>>>> overall, if it's coming just from the edges, I think you're safe.
>>>>
>>>> I see 456 doing this more (though I've seen it more on 1/2-inch than
>>>> 1/4-inch). It has also happened on Agfa and BASF, but not regularly.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have this variant specifically listed, but you might find this
>>>> resource of use:
>>>> http://richardhess.com/notes/****formats/magnetic-media/**<http://richardhess.com/notes/**formats/magnetic-media/**>
>>>> magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/****degrading-tapes/<http://**
>>>> richardhess.com/notes/formats/**magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/**
>>>> analog-audio/degrading-tapes/<http://richardhess.com/notes/formats/magnetic-media/magnetic-tapes/analog-audio/degrading-tapes/>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good luck!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-04-01 12:10 PM, Peoples, Curtis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Richard,
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe the tape is Ampex 456, not positive though. The studio
>>>>> generally bought Ampex 456 tape. It is a ten inch, quarter inch reel
>>>>> (two
>>>>> track master recording). For this collection, we bake 8 hours at 130
>>>>> degrees. We have found this to be a suitable process for this
>>>>> collection.
>>>>>   The shredding appears to be from the edges. We are transferring on a
>>>>> relatively new Otari MX 5050. The machine was cleaned so I don't have
>>>>> pics
>>>>> of the shred. They are usually about 3 inches long before breaking and
>>>>> are
>>>>> about the thickness of fine hair.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Curtis
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:
>>>>> [log in to unmask]**GOV <[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Richard L. Hess
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 10:48 AM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Sticky SHRED
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Curtis,
>>>>>
>>>>> Please provide specifics as to type of tape, width, reel type, baking
>>>>> process and duration.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also photographs are really useful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the shredding from the edges only or across the entire width of the
>>>>> tape?
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the playback machine?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2013-04-01 10:35 AM, Peoples, Curtis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have a collection of tapes that have sticky shed and we are baking
>>>>>> and transferring them. Things are going as planned except for one
>>>>>> tape. It
>>>>>> is shredding into fine hair like stands. I thought it needed to be
>>>>>> baked
>>>>>> longer so I baked it a second time. Same problem. I have seen tape shed
>>>>>> before and this looks different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any help identifying the problem is greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Curtis L. Peoples, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Associate Archivist, Crossroads Music Archive,
>>>>>> www.crossroadsofmusic.ttu.edu<****http://www.**crossroadsofmusic.<http://www.crossroadsofmusic.>
>>>>>> **ttu.edu/<h**ttp://www.crossroadsofmusic.**ttu.edu/<http://www.crossroadsofmusic.ttu.edu/>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unit Head, Crossroads Recording Studio,
>>>>>> http://library.ttu.edu/****crossroadsrecordingstudio/<http://library.ttu.edu/**crossroadsrecordingstudio/>
>>>>>> <htt**p://library.ttu.edu/**crossroadsrecordingstudio/<http://library.ttu.edu/crossroadsrecordingstudio/>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> Director, TTU Americana Ensemble,
>>>>>> http://ttuamericanaensemble.****weebly.com/index.html<http://weebly.com/index.html>
>>>>>> <http://**ttuamericanaensemble.weebly.**com/index.html<http://ttuamericanaensemble.weebly.com/index.html>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Contact Info:
>>>>>> Southwest Collection, Texas Tech University P. O. Box 41041 Lubbock,
>>>>>> Texas 79409-1041
>>>>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> TEL: 806-742-3749 ext. 278
>>>>>> FAX: 806-742-0496
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --
>>>> Richard L. Hess                   email: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Aurora, Ontario, Canada                             647 479 2800
>>>> http://www.richardhess.com/****tape/contact.htm<http://www.richardhess.com/**tape/contact.htm>
>>>> <http://www.**richardhess.com/tape/contact.**htm<http://www.richardhess.com/tape/contact.htm>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Quality tape transfers -- even from hard-to-play tapes.
>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> בברכה,
>> שי דרורי
>> מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.
>>
> 

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