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ARSCLIST  June 2013

ARSCLIST June 2013

Subject:

Re: Optical Disks for Archiving

From:

Shai Drori <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 20 Jun 2013 17:21:26 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (158 lines)

Hi Max
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Even and ISO standard is not going to 
tell you anything about the condition of your cd. All these are just 
estimates, and while no format is totally perfect, the optical media has 
proven itself to be unreliable.
m2c
Shai
בתאריך 20/06/13 2:57 PM, ציטוט Masatoshi "Max" Inui:
> Good morning!
>
> I think it depends on what strategy each organization would want. Each recording medium has its good and drawback. 3-2-1 concept is always good strategy and I think optical disc such as DVD or BD still plays important roles. Best benefit of these format is, as previously said, the condition can be known in numeric value and the value is defined in ISO standard.
>
> Best regards,
> Max
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shai Drori
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 04:59
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Optical Disks for Archiving
>
> Hi Everyone
> I am still surprised that in the year 2013 we are still discussing optical media as an archival option. It is wrong for the following reasons:
> 1. It is very expensive.
> 2. It is not environmentally friendly.
> 3. It consumes way too much space.
> 4. It has a much shorter life span than you might want to know (less than 5 with the archival grade Mitsui, now MAM that we used).
>
> Back to my hole in the ground
> Shai
>
>
>
> בתאריך 20/06/13 3:32 AM, ציטוט John Schroth:
>> I would throw my hat in the ring for three manufacturers: Taiyo Yuden
>> (who offers both standard and "archival" grade optical disks -
>> frankly, I've been very happy with the standard disks for many years)
>> Verbatim and MAM-A.
>>
>> We have a very large disk duplicating company here in Rochester. They
>> are ISO certified and have run a lot of testing. They are not willing
>> to directly share the results but I am friends with one of the people
>> in management there and they are very strong on these three
>> manufacturers based upon the results of their testing. One thing that
>> seems to hold true for all three of these manufacturers is that, as
>> far as I know, they make the disks in house and they do not outsource.
>>
>> I would strongly encourage anyone saving data to optical disk, to make
>> a master set and at least one backup set (two sets are better) all on
>> different "high quality" manufacturers. That way you hedge your bets
>> in two ways: having redundant copies and also your data is saved on
>> more than one optical disk manufacturer.
>>
>> Never trust one manufacturer. Just because you use a manufacturer that
>> you trust now, they may not always produce the same product. No-one
>> knows the future. TDK used to make a "decent" DVD disk. Then they
>> switched and outsourced to CMC magnetics, one of the worst
>> manufactures around. I know as I was working on a project at the time
>> where the client had insisted on using TDK. I ran out of the current
>> stock, ordered 5,000 more disks and immediately started burning
>> coasters straight off the bat without any other changes to the burning
>> process. After some research I found that they began outsourcing their
>> production. Also, all companies make changes and some try to make
>> improvements in their product. Ampex and others changed their
>> audiotape formulations through the years and now look at the issue of
>> sticky shed with some of their tape stocks from different time
>> periods. No one suspected this at the time, Ampex had a great name and
>> I don't think they had any intention of making a tape that would
>> develop these issues in the future. It just happened that way but it
>> is a lesson we all should learn from.
>>
>> Just as important as saving your data on high-quality optical disk is:
>> disk burning, labeling and storage. No standard sharpies - use
>> archival ink pens, no sticky labels (for numerous reasons), use cases
>> that keep out UV light and also support the disk from both the center
>> and the outside edge to prevent warping long-term. Don't use standard
>> CD jewel cases as people tend to remove disks from this type of case
>> by pulling the disks from the outside edge, stressing the center and
>> sometimes separating the disk layers from each other. Burn your disks
>> at the slowest speed possible and don't do any other tasks on your
>> computer when burning disks, otherwise you introduce unwanted and
>> detrimental data errors. Some data errors will be to a point that you
>> notice that the disks will stall or hesitate (all the way through or
>> just near the end) or worse yet, some data errors you don't notice at
>> all, until you decide to copy or migrate the data and you cannot.
>> Proper burning, labeling, and storage are just as important, if not
>> more important, as the disk manufacturer you use.
>>
>> Many people feel that writable CD media does not last as long as DVD
>> media. I have no proof but this seems to be the general consentious in
>> the archival community from what I see and read.
>>
>> I also tend to suggest avoiding the allure of using expensive gold or
>> silver archival media. This is only the reflective surface, it is not
>> the dye layer that holds the information. Just because the
>> manufacturer uses a gold reflective layer does not mean that they use
>> chemical formulations for the dye layer that have any lasting
>> permanence. I'd far rather burn three sets of of the same data on
>> three different standard grade (though still high-quality)
>> manufacturers, than I would trusting my information on one "gold" DVD
>> or CD optical disk.
>>
>> Just my two cents....
>>
>> John Schroth
>> Media Transfer Service
>>
>>
>> On 6/19/2013 2:53 PM, Masatoshi "Max" Inui wrote:
>>> Have you heard about ISO/IEC10995? This standard defines the test
>>> method to estimate longevity of DVD-R. The most suitable products for
>>> archiving is "certified" products.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, the format itself has very clear archive guidelines,
>>> which is ISO/IEC29121. This defines the safe level of error rate at
>>> the time of writing and during storage. Optical discs has archive
>>> guidelines from the test(initial quality) to storage.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Max
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lou Judson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 13:03
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Optical Disks for Archiving
>>>
>>> Taiyo-Yuden, now JVC, is the best for universal playback.
>>>
>>> I defer to the archival experts for long term archiving.
>>> <L>
>>> Lou Judson
>>> Intuitive Audio
>>> 415-883-2689
>>>
>>> On Jun 19, 2013, at 10:32 AM, Chris J Brady wrote:
>>>
>>>> I received this from my aunt on Skye who is trying to archive her
>>>> scanned slides and photos and digitised cassettes.
>>>>
>>>> "Which disks from Amazon's great long list are the best for
>>>> recording [I assume she means arching] photos and sound files in
>>>> your opinion?"
>>>>
>>>> Cheers - Chris B.
>>>>
>>>>
> --
> בברכה,
> שי דרורי
> מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.

-- 
בברכה,
שי דרורי
מומחה לשימור והמרה של אודיו וידאו וסרטים 8-35 ממ.

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